The 4-4-3

[Firebird]

Back when I played, our base defense was the 4-4-3. The strength of this defense was, of course, against the run, because back then the valley teams were behind the curve, and passed about as much as U of Nebraska used to.

I imagine this defense isn't used anywhere in the state at the 5a or 4a level, sicne even the South Texas schools have introduced spread offenses and are passing more. Has anyone seen it anywhere in the state at the lower levels? I imagine in A or 2A ball you might get a lot of milegae out of it.

[RocklandDragon]

Can't say I've seen the 4-4-3 setup recently. For much of last year, I watched six-man football so the only setups I saw were 1-2-3 or 2-4. I may be listing these wrong but the 1 is referring to the man in the secondary and the 3 is the men on the line (probably should be 3-2-1). Neat to see though.

:cool:

[SFARocketGrad]

Can't say I've seen the 4-4-3 setup recently. For much of last year, I watched six-man football so the only setups I saw were 1-2-3 or 2-4. I may be listing these wrong but the 1 is referring to the man in the secondary and the 3 is the men on the line (probably should be 3-2-1). Neat to see though.

:cool:
]

no the 123 defense is one end, 2 backers, 3 dbs. End rushes the QB, Backers got middle zone or man on the upbacks and dbs got either cover 3 or man with the safety watching the center deep.

[HUM398]

The 4-4-3 is one of my favorites. But your right, it isnt used at all through out the 4a 5a teams because of the evolution of High school football... I remember a time where thats what you knew was coming at you. The passing game in HS football has really changed over the last 10 years... Its impressive actually.

[slorch]

the 4-4-3 is like the 'bone or veer. It's had its run, but you probably won't see it much any more. It is fun to watch but with the spread offenses, your 3 DBs get picked apart real quickly. We played it in junior high and it was fun because a lot of teams didn't know how to block 2 middle LBs., and it was all downhill from there. But as many have posted on here, it was great for matching up with run offenses, but the spread tears it apart.

[G-Man]

the 4-4-3 is like the 'bone or veer. It's had its run, but you probably won't see it much any more. It is fun to watch but with the spread offenses, your 3 DBs get picked apart real quickly. We played it in junior high and it was fun because a lot of teams didn't know how to block 2 middle LBs., and it was all downhill from there. But as many have posted on here, it was great for matching up with run offenses, but the spread tears it apart.

Yeah, '99 was the last year we ran it...4-2-5 is what the 4-4-3 evolved into...to combat the passing game.

[youtellatale]

The 44 front defense is great for defending the run, but honestly, it can effectively defend the pass as well. One main thing people forget about HS football is that the LBs arent 6'3 260, they are kids and most of the LBs can play DB as well. If the scheme is right and the kids are drilled well enough then a 44 can defend a spread team. Also, people think that the veer and wishbone are dead. The spread offense is just the next cycle in the evolving world of football. Much like everyone thought the Wishbone/Veer option offenses were the be-all, end-all of football offense, they were neutralized by defenses adjusting. Once defenses consistantly defend the Spread, it too will fade in popularity.

[Leander 6136]

Leander used to run this before switching to the 3-3-5 2 years ago but the outside linebackers (8 techs) were athletes and lined up on the slot receivers against spread teams becoming a 4-2-5.

[SeguinMatadors]

Back when I played, our base defense was the 4-4-3. The strength of this defense was, of course, against the run, because back then the valley teams were behind the curve, and passed about as much as U of Nebraska used to.

I imagine this defense isn't used anywhere in the state at the 5a or 4a level, sicne even the South Texas schools have introduced spread offenses and are passing more. Has anyone seen it anywhere in the state at the lower levels? I imagine in A or 2A ball you might get a lot of milegae out of it.

When we play San Marcos we always implement the 4-4-3 because they do not throw the ball at all.

[Firebird]

The 44 front defense is great for defending the run, but honestly, it can effectively defend the pass as well. One main thing people forget about HS football is that the LBs arent 6'3 260, they are kids and most of the LBs can play DB as well. If the scheme is right and the kids are drilled well enough then a 44 can defend a spread team. Also, people think that the veer and wishbone are dead. The spread offense is just the next cycle in the evolving world of football. Much like everyone thought the Wishbone/Veer option offenses were the be-all, end-all of football offense, they were neutralized by defenses adjusting. Once defenses consistantly defend the Spread, it too will fade in popularity.

I agree with you to some extent, but I still don't think I'd take the field with the 44 front against a team like Southlake Carrol or Lufkin. If the other team doesn't have several fast recievers, it could still work.

I completely agree with you as far as the spread offense. These things run in cycles. Eventually, some coach is going to start getting a lot of mileage out of some new version of an option attack and we'll see the running game come back in vogue.

[svhorns]

I havent seen the 4-4-3 since I played middle school ball... we had the 4 D-line then we had... Strong Inisde LB(Sam) and Weak Inside LB(Will) Strong Oustide LB(Bandit) Weak Outside LB(Robber)

[youtellatale]

I agree with you to some extent, but I still don't think I'd take the field with the 44 front against a team like Southlake Carrol or Lufkin. If the other team doesn't have several fast recievers, it could still work.

I completely agree with you as far as the spread offense. These things run in cycles. Eventually, some coach is going to start getting a lot of mileage out of some new version of an option attack and we'll see the running game come back in vogue.

What i was saying is that with the 44, all a coach needs to say is that his OLBs are really Rovers or $s, thats it. The titles for some players in HS are pretty much imagined. In 2004, Jerrod Carroll won 5a defensive player of the year at "OLB" when all he did was rush the QB all season, he was aboutg 5'9 and 165 (not the typical OLB). Basically what i am trying to get across is that athletes are the key, if you have athletes and they are disciplined and well coached, the system should work regardless of what you call it.

[MidLineOption73]

I think that you will see the inside and outside veer, coming back to the 15-5A, because of Carson and his staff. They run it and teach it, with the utmost skill. They have a couple of Qbs coming through the ranks that can really run it and run it will. They also have some fullbacks and o-line men that can really run it. It will be interesting, but I see them beating the Woodducks next year, playing Lufkin closer than this year, and going deep into the POs in the Fourth year of playing varsity. Watch out World the Cavs are coming and they are bringing the Option back!!!!:cool:

[BeauxGeezy]

aggy runs the 4-4-4.

[HUM398]

aggy runs the 4-4-4.

Yeah i noticed...Sneaky little son of a [please fill in what ever you wish, but you know what i was going to say]

[wise_man]

The 44 front defense is great for defending the run, but honestly, it can effectively defend the pass as well. One main thing people forget about HS football is that the LBs arent 6'3 260, they are kids and most of the LBs can play DB as well. If the scheme is right and the kids are drilled well enough then a 44 can defend a spread team. Also, people think that the veer and wishbone are dead. The spread offense is just the next cycle in the evolving world of football. Much like everyone thought the Wishbone/Veer option offenses were the be-all, end-all of football offense, they were neutralized by defenses adjusting. Once defenses consistantly defend the Spread, it too will fade in popularity.

It all depends on your athletes as to what scheme you should play on Defense , because if you don't have the horses , you got a long walk back home. My coach used to tell us that back in the old days...

[CKE]

Sv ran a 4-4-3 when we played cleer lake in 04. we ran that half the time and a 4-3 the other half

[TigerHat]

In 2003 Aldine Nimitz beat Baytown Lee's spread passing attack with a 4-4-3 and made it to the regional finals before losing to Katy. Nobody but Katy had any offensive success against it.

The defense is better than you might think against passing attacks because the back 7 play zone leaving nothing but dink and dunk passing plays between the zones - which requires a lot of patience on the offensive side. The three deep zone is surprisingly difficult to go deep against.

In addition Blitzing is pretty easy out of a 4-4-3

[Owned05]

In 2003 Aldine Nimitz beat Baytown Lee's spread passing attack with a 4-4-3 and made it to the regional finals before losing to Katy. Nobody but Katy had any offensive success against it.

The defense is better than you might think against passing attacks because the back 7 play zone leaving nothing but dink and dunk passing plays between the zones - which requires a lot of patience on the offensive side. The three deep zone is surprisingly difficult to go deep against.

In addition Blitzing is pretty easy out of a 4-4-3

Wasn't that same Nimitz team 6-6 or something going into the Katy game?

But I agree, the 4-4-3 is rather effective.

[Oiler99]

pearlands played a 4-4-3 for a long time. jus last year they implented the sam and will linebackers and converted to a more atheletic outside linebackers to cover recievers and line up like a 4-2-5 but majority of time we still see 4-4-3

[HUM398]

pearlands played a 4-4-3 for a long time. jus last year they implented the sam and will linebackers and converted to a more atheletic outside linebackers to cover recievers and line up like a 4-2-5 but majority of time we still see 4-4-3

Thats what we call a Split D. 4-2-5 Usually operates out of a Cover 2... and the Split D out of a Cover 3.

[Pack Backer]

The 4-3 is not a bad defense against the old or new offenses. You only need two true linebackers as the third can actaully be another db. That way you can keep someone in the middle and still cover the hook and short outside areas. The secondary can cover the deeper outside and deep middle. The 4-2-5 against a spread offense is vunerable over the middle, that's where you can attack it best especially on a play action where you can run the slot man in the area the linebacker vacates when he comes up against the run.

[d-train]

pearlands played a 4-4-3 for a long time. jus last year they implented the sam and will linebackers and converted to a more atheletic outside linebackers to cover recievers and line up like a 4-2-5 but majority of time we still see 4-4-3
4-4-3 is the 4-2-5, just with a different name, but its the same defense.

[wizenbud]

SA Roosevelt ran the 4-4-3 up till last year. TR changed to a hybrid 4-3-4 during springball.

Most defenses are playing mutiple styles nowadays. I have seen teams run 3 man lines on one play, then the next play, a 5 man line. The defenses of the state are starting to catch-up to the spread by going to flexible defenses. OLB's are chosen, in part, on how well they can cover. Twin safeties looks force more check downs in the passing game. DT are chosen for their ability to penetrate and cause QB fits, more than stopping the run. MLB are chosen more for sideline to sideline speed than size, to corral the run. Corners are starting to be chosen for their abilty to play zone. In the past, CB's were more valued for their 1on1 ability. But with the rise of the spread, playing "bend don't break" defense has become the norm. Meaning, the zone becomes a weapon once the field shrinks. So, yes teams run out of a certain base of personel, but with mutiple defensive line and secondary looks. IMO.

[d-train]

SA Roosevelt ran the 4-4-3 up till last year. TR changed to a hybrid 4-3-4 during springball.

Most defenses are playing mutiple styles nowadays. I have seen teams run 3 man lines on one play, then the next play, a 5 man line. The defenses of the state are starting to catch-up to the spread by going to flexible defenses. OLB's are chosen, in part, on how well they can cover. Twin safeties looks force more check downs in the passing game. DT are chosen for their ability to penetrate and cause QB fits, more than stopping the run. MLB are chosen more for sideline to sideline speed than size, to corral the run. Corners are starting to be chosen for their abilty to play zone. In the past, CB's were more valued for their 1on1 ability. But with the rise of the spread, playing "bend don't break" defense has become the norm. Meaning, the zone becomes a weapon once the field shrinks. So, yes teams run out of a certain base of personel, but with mutiple defensive line and secondary looks. IMO.
P-ville runs the 4-4, with a DL and 7 DBs.

[wizenbud]

P-ville runs the 4-4, with a DL and 7 DBs.

Exactly my point. A 4-4, with the D-line and 7 DB's, could play an un-Godly number of sytles. From a 4-4-3 base, a nickel look, a dime look, and even a 4-6 look. Defense's have turned to speed and coverage ability as the benchmarks of a good defensive player. Size is still wanted, but if the size and speed don't equal out, speed seems to win out most of the time. That's my take, but as always, I could be wrong. :D

[d-train]

Exactly my point. A 4-4, with the D-line and 7 DB's, could play an un-Godly number of sytles. From a 4-4-3 base, a nickel look, a dime look, and even a 4-6 look. Defense's have turned to speed and coverage ability as the benchmarks of a good defensive player. Size is still wanted, but if the size and speed don't equal out, speed seems to win out most of the time. That's my take, but as always, I could be wrong. :D
The can also run the 30 stack principles with a man line. They are VERY fast and break on the ball quickly.

[wizenbud]

The can also run the 30 stack principles with a man line. They are VERY fast and break on the ball quickly.

Seems that alot of defenses are blazing fast this year. I could be out on a limb here...... But it looks like the trend is starting to change from offensive speed to defensive speed. Meaning, coaches are placing their fastest guys on the defensive side of the ball. In my day, (almost 2 decades ago), coaches preached offensive speed, Defensive size. Looks as if that has flipped, Offensive size, Defensive speed. IMO.

[d-train]

Thats what we call a Split D. 4-2-5 Usually operates out of a Cover 2... and the Split D out of a Cover 3.
TCU and Va Tech run 4-2-5, which are 40 stacks, they are 8 man front defenses with a 3 deep. They can be shifted into a cover 2 by dropping the Whip or Weakside OLB into a deep half with the FS, allow the Mike, Backer and Rover to play like a 4-3. Don't get confused by video games!