Scouts agree UT's Young has NFL star quality

[jtk1519]

Pretty true article. Basicly says Vince has some work to do with his passing game, but it also says he's one of the most dangerous QBs to ever play the game.

Pro scouts agree on one thing: There is not a more exciting quarterback in college football than the 6-5 junior from Madison High School. Last season Young became the first Texas quarterback to pass and rush for 1,000 yards in the same season. More importantly, he's a proven winner with a 17-2 record as a starter.

"He's as feared with the ball in his hands as any quarterback in the history of the game," Kiper said. "He's a righthanded Michael Vick. Had there been no Michael Vick, Vince Young would have been the greatest multidimensional quarterback to ever play college football."

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3271782

[pack0808]

young is a great specimen no doubt and he will be in the nfl but you know i had to post a link from an nfl scout site that says reggie will go in round 1 or 2 in the nfl draft. they have is 40 time at 4.32 :eek:



http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=830




the same site has young projected as a 1st rounder. his 40 time is listed at 4.48

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=747




both are very likely to be 1st round draft picks next year. that is great for the state of texas.

[TheDuke]

Young will stick around and play one more year to get his degree. He better anyway!! :mad:

[jtk1519]

I read somewhere that he is only 30 hours away from receiving his degree in education. Pretty impressive. I too think he will stick around through his senior year. Never mind the fact that almost nobody leaves Texas early, Vince has a great mentor in Steve McNair. I would imagine that McNair will encourage Vince to stay in school as long as possible to really perfect his game before taking it to the NFL. The money will be there for Vince. More time in school will only improve his draft standing.

[GTown02]

But, More time in school = more chances of getting injured before getting the big paycheck...

I want Vince to stay for his senior year, but I would understand if he chooses to exit early.

Im glad I dont have to make that decision! :eek:

[jtk1519]

I would understand too and I wouldnt hold it against him, but I dont think he leaves. From what I understand, Vince is a very smart young man with good people around him. I think he'll make the right choice... whatever that may be.

Vince has stayed pretty clear of injury I believe. These are the only two times I really remember seeing him hurt...

http://www.jcdenton40.com/crotchstrike.mpg
http://www.jcdenton40.com/ArrionDixonCheapshot.avi (freakin' pig scum)

[TheDuke]

I read somewhere that he is only 30 hours away from receiving his degree in education. Pretty impressive. I too think he will stick around through his senior year. Never mind the fact that almost nobody leaves Texas early, Vince has a great mentor in Steve McNair. I would imagine that McNair will encourage Vince to stay in school as long as possible to really perfect his game before taking it to the NFL. The money will be there for Vince. More time in school will only improve his draft standing.


Read in the paper today that he has a little over 40 hours to go, still very impressive though!

[jtk1519]

Read in the paper today that he has a little over 40 hours to go, still very impressive though!

Maybe that's where I read it. Thanks for the correction.

[businesstron]

I think Vince could be better, the offense he's playing in is restricting him.

[GarlandOwl06]

Wow. All you can really say is wow.

[jtk1519]

Wow. All you can really say is wow.

That's exactlly what these aggsy said...

http://www.jcdenton41.com/UTvATM04-VinceYoung-Run1(DivX).avi

[pack0808]

now do not forget that reggie broke 2 all time aggy records last year. he broke the single season record in passing and rushing. a&m has been playing football for a long long time. looks like both young and reggie are smashing school records left and right. it is going to be fun to see what they both do next year and what they will do at the next level.

[Favpack]

Vince proved he can absolutely take over a game in the Rose Bowl. Lets also remember Michigan ain't no OU or USC - they had a mediocre defense.

But -- I think Vince will have a breakout year in all aspects-- then I think he'll go to the bigs - he should IMO - he redshirted his freshman year.

[pack0808]

i know this is v young thread but i had to throw a reggie article in there. everytime do a reggie thread i hear about young so i figured i do the same in this thread. lol this is from rivals.com it says reggie was clocked at a 4.30 on pro day last spring. another nfl scouting site has him at a 4.32. that is some serious speed folks!! i am not going into get in the mcneal vs young argument again because it is pointless. both are great athletes and great qb's.

July 19, 2005
McNeal ready for one last ride
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rivals.com Big 12 Network
Websider.com

HOUSTON--The term dual-threat quarterback has become increasingly popular in the last few years. Few players embody that term more than Texas A&M senior Reggie McNeal. Though he may be more well-known for his running ability, coach Dennis Franchione is quick to point out that McNeal can throw the ball a little bit. The Aggies finished 20th in the nation in total offense and second in the Big 12, behind only Texas Tech, in passing offense.



Reggie McNeal addresses reporters in Houston on Tuesday afternoon.
And Franchione says he's better now. So good, in fact, that the A&M coaching staff named McNeal the team's most improved player in the spring.

"I just think overall Reggie's been very purposeful about growing as a quarterback," the coach said. "He's a better leader than he's ever been, he's more mature...There's not an area that stands out, it's the total quarterback in all areas that led our coaches to vote him to that accolade."

McNeal isn't a concern. A&M knows what it has there. However, without the departed Terrence Murphy, McNeal is searching for a new go-to guy for the upcoming season. He doesn't seem all that worried about it.

"It's a group thing," McNeal said. "Our whole receiving corps, everybody can make plays. All of them, you just give them the ball, they're going to catch everything in the area. It's something that they work on because they don't want to drop balls. It's going to be probably one of the most talented groups of receivers I've ever had to throw to."

While the passing game makes McNeal a more effective runner, he may not even need it. The quarterback's scrambling abilities are so deathly to defenses that Franchione jokes his best offensive play call is a pass that is well covered.

"Sometimes the worst thing that happens to our opponent's defense is pass called," Franchione said. "They're all droppoing into coverage, doing a great job covering downfield, and Reggie pulls it down and starts running. This guy ran 4.30 on pro day last spring. I haven't seen many guys get timed at a 4.30. He's got great speed to go make plays. I also jokingly say that he overcomes my coaching some days because he can take those plays that break down and turn them into big plays. If there's any doubt about what to do, put it in number one's hands and let him do his stuff. He does it very well."

It's that ability to turn a broken play into a successful one that is most damaging to defenses. The Aggie defenders in attendance on Tuesday insist there is no way to game plan around that ability.

"I don't think you can game plan that because that's just playmakers making plays," said safety Jaxson Appel. "When their playmakers make plays, your playmakers have to make more than theirs to win the football game."

"When you've got a versatile quarterback like that, you don't know which angle to come at because he can beat you so many ways," said Archie McDaniel. "I've seen week in and week out game plans that I thought should have worked and they didn't. He's just one of those type of guys that can beat you either way."

McNeal will most assuredly enter the 2005 season with a target on his back. Though he was passed over as the all-Big 12 preseason quarterback for Vince Young, defenses will most certainly be planning their attacks for the play of McNeal. And as for the choice between him and Young, don't think you'll get McNeal to comment.

"Between me and him, we don't even talk about that," McNeal said. "That's nothing to us. That's what all the writers and everybody else tries to make it. But when I talk to Vince and he talks to me, that's not even something that we talk about."

"If I need that to motivate me, I don't need to be playing."

"Hands down, he's my quarterback," McDaniel said. "I'm going to say he's the best."

Rivals.com will provide complete coverage of Big 12 media days from Houston throughout the week. Look for daily notebooks, photo galleries and stories focusing on each team throughout the event.

[Mad Hatter]

i think young is probably faster then 4.48 he is liek the 3rd fastest player on the team.

[jtk1519]

I've said it here a 100 times before. Reggie is faster than Young, but Young has a ton more "football speed" than Reggie. In a straight 100 yard dash, I'll take Reggie over Vince 99% of the time, but with pads on, a football in hand and an angry defense coming at them, I'll take Vince 100% of the time.

[LeanderLions3033]

I'm gonna say if Reggie and Vince raced a straight line 40, Reggie would probably win. But Vince is so much more dangerous on the ground then Reggie, because he runs a smooth 4.48 and when he cuts with the same speed he runs in a straight line with. Reggie falls in the fetal position when Tarrell Brown is coming on a corner back blitz. Thats something that i can almost guarantee you will never happen with Vince. He never leaves himself as a sitting duck like on that play.

[biki1121]

I'm gonna say if Reggie and Vince raced a straight line 40, Reggie would probably win. But Vince is so much more dangerous on the ground then Reggie, because he runs a smooth 4.48 and when he cuts with the same speed he runs in a straight line with. Reggie falls in the fetal position when Tarrell Brown is coming on a corner back blitz. Thats something that i can almost guarantee you will never happen with Vince. He never leaves himself as a sitting duck like on that play.


Why is it the Horn fans hate Reggie so much? The kid could throw for 260 yards in a game and get another 100 on the ground and Horns everywhere will remind everyone of that "devasting hit" Reggie took against "insert name here" and that Reggie hit the "fetal" position. I then get to hear about how Vince on the same afternoon threw for 80 yards and 2 int but he really burned "insert name here" for a mean 18 yarder enroute to his 140 yards rushing for the day................

Sounds silly doesn't it...... but that's exactly how most of these threads go regarding the 2 players.

Both are fine QBs and you probably couldn't find a better leader for each respective team. Open your eyes and appreciate 2 outstanding stars of Texas HS football.

[biki1121]

Leander, that wasn't a shot at you. Just an observation that I have seen ever since these 2 young men announced who they would be playing football for...... As an Aggie fan, I have always praised VY on his accomplishments and football wins. It's just a shame that so many people try to tear down a great player like RM or VY (yes I know some Aggie fans do it as well) just because you don't like the color of their jersey.

[VB Pack Fan]

Yes guys both these guys are great players, but is there anybody out there that thinks either of them are really 1ST rounders at this time. I,m thinking 2nd at the most as of now. This season could change their status with breakout numbers.

[jtk1519]

Because Reggie plays for aggy. If he had gone to Florida or USC or anywhere else... he wouldnt be picked on the way he is. Fact is, the kid was doomed the second he committed.

Reggie is a great athelet and a damn good QB. He plays for a sorry team and a sorry coach. When you commit to schools like Florida State, Ohio State or Texas, you accept the fact that you are going to be looked at more than most. There is going to be more attention you way (good or bad) and people eveywhere are going to expect more out of you that they do most. when you commit to aggy, you accept the fact that you are probably going be the butt of a joke. Nobody outside of collie station really expects a whole lot out of aggy. Reggie knew what he was getting himself into and I wish him the best with all of that.

[jtk1519]

BTW, Reggie wouldnt be getting hated on in this thread if it hadnt been for the pathetic aggy who cant stand to see something about Vince. Fact is, the article that was posted talked about Vince and he alone. It never mentioned Reggie or tried to compare the two. However, aggy, in typical fashion, cant stand to hear good things about Vince without trying to compare him to Reggie. Frankly, it's kinda sad.

[Texasfrog]

Young will stick around and play one more year to get his degree. He better anyway!! :mad:

It would be a mistake for Young to leave early for the NFL. The only way it would even remotely make sense is if he (Young) comes out and shows the Scouts that his throwing is alot better. His mechanics need alot of work for the NFL level.

In fact.. right now I would say Reggie McNeal is a better "NFL" prospect because his throwing mechanics are alot better than Youngs.

[Texasfrog]

Because Reggie plays for aggy. If he had gone to Florida or USC or anywhere else... he wouldnt be picked on the way he is. Fact is, the kid was doomed the second he committed.

Reggie is a great athelet and a damn good QB. He plays for a sorry team and a sorry coach. When you commit to schools like Florida State, Ohio State or Texas, you accept the fact that you are going to be looked at more than most. There is going to be more attention you way (good or bad) and people eveywhere are going to expect more out of you that they do most. when you commit to aggy, you accept the fact that you are probably going be the butt of a joke. Nobody outside of collie station really expects a whole lot out of aggy. Reggie knew what he was getting himself into and I wish him the best with all of that.

Reggie did go to QB waste land "U". Somebody once told me that Tx A&M is a graveyard for top notch blue-chip QB's.

[LeanderLions3033]

Oh no, i have tons of respect for Reggie. And the play where Tarrell Brown (the name that i decided to insert i guess) was coming on a corner back blitz in the 4th quarter of T+1 and instead of trying to allude the tackle he feel straight to the ground and curled up into a ball. I think Reggie is a great qb and if he decides to go to UT and Vince decides to go to aTm, hte smae longhorn fans would probably try and put up an argument for Reggie. But the simple fact that Reggie is 11-13 as a starter and vince is 17-2 makes you wonder. Ever aggy fan will say that Reggie is the better qb simply because Reggie beat OU "single handed" (i wonder what the rest of the team would have to say about that). That post was my bad, it was just a rant that i went on. I have plenty of respect for Reggie and his abilities, but aggy fans moroon tinted glasses make me sick when it comes to reggie.


And about the NFL for vince, he will not be a qb. His throwing motion doesnt bother me a bit, but it will bother the hell out of NFL scouts, and changing it will just mess him up. He will be in the same situation as Matt Jones was in this year, but i think he would go higher than him on pure athletic ability (which is why Matt Jones went so high). I could see him catching a few fades in his career.

[jtk1519]

Reggie can make it as a QB in the NFL, but Vince cant. Interesting theory, but flawed. Bottom line is production. The NFL is willing to overlook "shortcomings" if the guy can produce. That's why the NFL overlooked the unorthodox throwing motions of Phillip Rivers, David Carr, etc., or the size (or lack there of) of a Doug Flutie.

Since production is what matters, I found these stats very interesting...

Last year Reggie accounted for 3509 yards of total offense while Vince accounted for 2928 yards. That's fair enough. However, those numbers dont look quite as good for aggy when you consider the fact that Reggie ran 495 total plays while Vince only ran 417.

Further more, Reggie threw the ball 344 times last year to just 250 pass attempts for Vince (both ran the ball almost the same number of times though Vince's yardage was considerably better). So, for grins and giggles, lets figure how Vince would have done had he thrown the ball 344 times.

Based on VY's average yards per attempt last season we can figure that with 344 attempts, Vince would have thrown for 2546 yards... just a measly 245 yards (or 20.4 yards per game) less than almighty NFL Pro Bowl bound Reggie. What is even more interesting is that since Vince threw a TD pass about every 17 attempts (compared to every 25 attempts by Reggie) we can figure that VY would have thrown about 20 TDs on 344 attempts. Amazingly enough, Reggie was only able to muster 14 TD passes.

So, leaving rushing attempts alone since they are so close and just refiguring Vince's passing attempts to match Reggie's we can figure that Vince would have accounted for 3625 yards of total offense. That's right... Vince would have gained over 100 MORE yards than Reggie. Oh and Vince would have been responsible for 34 total TDs compared to just 22 for Reggie.

Vince is somewhere in the neighborhood of 6'6 231 with 4.4 speed. He WILL get a shot at QB in the NFL. Last year Reggie accounted for 3509 yards of total offense while Vince accounted for 2928 yards. That's fair enough. However, those numbers dont look quite as good for aggy when you consider the fact that Reggie ran 495 total plays while Vince only ran 417.

Further more, Reggie threw the ball 344 times last year to just 250 pass attempts for Vince (both ran the ball almost the same number of times though Vince's yardage was considerably better). So, for grins and giggles, lets figure how Vince would have done had he thrown the ball 344 times.

Based on VY's average yards per attempt last season we can figure that with 344 attempts, Vince would have thrown for 2546 yards... just a measly 245 yards (or 20.4 yards per game) less than almighty NFL Pro Bowl bound Reggie. What is even more interesting is that since Vince threw a TD pass about every 17 attempts (compared to every 25 attempts by Reggie) we can figure that VY would have thrown about 20 TDs on 344 attempts. Amazingly enough, Reggie was only able to muster 14 TD passes.

So, leaving rushing attempts alone since they are so close and just refiguring Vince's passing attempts to match Reggie's we can figure that Vince would have accounted for 3625 yards of total offense. That's right... Vince would have gained over 100 MORE yards than Reggie. Oh and Vince would have been responsible for 34 total TDs compared to just 22 for Reggie.

When you take a look at the whole package, physical tools, passing, rushing, etc... the only QB in recent history (if ever) that Vince really comapres to is Michael Vick.

[LeanderLions3033]

Never exactly thought about it that way. Last year with UT's inexperienced recieving core, and stud rb cedric benson, there was no reason to pass too much. I'm not saying Vince CANT suceed in the NFL as a qb, but you dont see any qb (including vick) run as much in the NFL because the speed of the game is faster and they hit harder. Thats why you see no option in the NFL. And Although his completion percentage was terrific, everybody out there noticed that if vince wasnt in a rythm, he couldnt complete a pass. I'd like to see what he could do with two more years under his belt though.

[Texasfrog]

Never exactly thought about it that way. Last year with UT's inexperienced recieving core, and stud rb cedric benson, there was no reason to pass too much. I'm not saying Vince CANT suceed in the NFL as a qb, but you dont see any qb (including vick) run as much in the NFL because the speed of the game is faster and they hit harder. Thats why you see no option in the NFL. And Although his completion percentage was terrific, everybody out there noticed that if vince wasnt in a rythm, he couldnt complete a pass. I'd like to see what he could do with two more years under his belt though.

You also see how Michael Vick is getting the "HECK" beat out of him and missing half of seasons and entire seasons. The pure running QB in the NFL means he wont last long because his going to be taken hits that will send him to the hospital. :(

Phillip Rivers does have an akward throwing style, But his still a very solid throwing QB. V. Young throwing mechanics need alot of work to succeed at the NFL level. The LB's and DB's are to fast and those soft underarm "dart" passes wont succeed at that level (NFL).

Not that I dont think V.Young isnt a great athlete. He is a phenom. He just needs to work on those throwing mechanics "bigtime" if he really wants to be a successful NFL QB.

[pack0808]

Reggie can make it as a QB in the NFL, but Vince cant. Interesting theory, but flawed. Bottom line is production. The NFL is willing to overlook "shortcomings" if the guy can produce. That's why the NFL overlooked the unorthodox throwing motions of Phillip Rivers, David Carr, etc., or the size (or lack there of) of a Doug Flutie.

Since production is what matters, I found these stats very interesting...

Last year Reggie accounted for 3509 yards of total offense while Vince accounted for 2928 yards. That's fair enough. However, those numbers dont look quite as good for aggy when you consider the fact that Reggie ran 495 total plays while Vince only ran 417.

Further more, Reggie threw the ball 344 times last year to just 250 pass attempts for Vince (both ran the ball almost the same number of times though Vince's yardage was considerably better). So, for grins and giggles, lets figure how Vince would have done had he thrown the ball 344 times.

Based on VY's average yards per attempt last season we can figure that with 344 attempts, Vince would have thrown for 2546 yards... just a measly 245 yards (or 20.4 yards per game) less than almighty NFL Pro Bowl bound Reggie. What is even more interesting is that since Vince threw a TD pass about every 17 attempts (compared to every 25 attempts by Reggie) we can figure that VY would have thrown about 20 TDs on 344 attempts. Amazingly enough, Reggie was only able to muster 14 TD passes.

So, leaving rushing attempts alone since they are so close and just refiguring Vince's passing attempts to match Reggie's we can figure that Vince would have accounted for 3625 yards of total offense. That's right... Vince would have gained over 100 MORE yards than Reggie. Oh and Vince would have been responsible for 34 total TDs compared to just 22 for Reggie.

Vince is somewhere in the neighborhood of 6'6 231 with 4.4 speed. He WILL get a shot at QB in the NFL. Last year Reggie accounted for 3509 yards of total offense while Vince accounted for 2928 yards. That's fair enough. However, those numbers dont look quite as good for aggy when you consider the fact that Reggie ran 495 total plays while Vince only ran 417.

Further more, Reggie threw the ball 344 times last year to just 250 pass attempts for Vince (both ran the ball almost the same number of times though Vince's yardage was considerably better). So, for grins and giggles, lets figure how Vince would have done had he thrown the ball 344 times.

Based on VY's average yards per attempt last season we can figure that with 344 attempts, Vince would have thrown for 2546 yards... just a measly 245 yards (or 20.4 yards per game) less than almighty NFL Pro Bowl bound Reggie. What is even more interesting is that since Vince threw a TD pass about every 17 attempts (compared to every 25 attempts by Reggie) we can figure that VY would have thrown about 20 TDs on 344 attempts. Amazingly enough, Reggie was only able to muster 14 TD passes.

So, leaving rushing attempts alone since they are so close and just refiguring Vince's passing attempts to match Reggie's we can figure that Vince would have accounted for 3625 yards of total offense. That's right... Vince would have gained over 100 MORE yards than Reggie. Oh and Vince would have been responsible for 34 total TDs compared to just 22 for Reggie.

When you take a look at the whole package, physical tools, passing, rushing, etc... the only QB in recent history (if ever) that Vince really comapres to is Michael Vick.


wow!! you crazed texas fans cannot help going off on reggie. i mean that was unbelievable!! you know what really amazes me?? i mean really amazes me about this post?? and it had to be done intentionally if it is not in there. if i missed it i apologize. all this silly if this would have happened or that would have happened or vy had this many throws and vy had this many rushes yada yada yada!! he makes the point that mcneal had several more passing attempts then young so that is why he had much more yardage passing and many more td's. did you see how he conveniately left out how many interceptions young would have had if he threw as many passes at reggie?? reggie threw the ball a lot more then vy in a passing offense yet reggie had a lot less interceptions. so (for grins and giggles) like you said over and over jtk!! why don't you add up how many picks vince would have had if he threw the ball as many times as reggie did last year?? the number should be amazingly high. i did not want to get into this again and that was not my intention but i had to respond to that garbage. when there is a reggie thread there is vince talk and when there is a vince thread there is reggie talk. it is almost impossible to avoid. and by the way, reggie is listed by almost all the nfl scout sites as a 1st or 2nd round qb for a reason.


on a&m!! again for the 3,000th time i am not an aggy fan at all i am a huge iowa hawkeye fan and a lufkin panther fan obviously so i cheer for the lp players like reggie on a&m. i cheer for texas over a&m but i do not have burnt orange sunglasses on at all. i laugh how some of you describe a&m as though it is indiana, kansas, utep, baylor, rice, kent st, vanderbilt, buffalo etc etc etc etc or some awful div1a team like that. a&m is a very proud program and they have been winning a lot of games for a long time. yes they have had some down years recently for them but they are still a solid div1a program. not to long ago they were one of the winningest teams in the nation. some have amnesia when it comes to that. a&m still has plenty of players that go on in the nfl and they are still a very respectable program and playing at a&m is still a very tough place to play at. i mean what kind of horrible program could beat the #1 team in the nation a few years back?? they have been doing a great job in the recruiting area and i think they are on the rise. i would not be surprised to see them winning 9-10 games a year like they used to very soon. i just crack up when texas fans act like a player is doomed if they go to a&m. it does not make sense?? a&m has been on a little down streak but texas sure was on a long mediocre streak before mack got there. it does not seem that long ago watching texas teams getting torched by teams like ucla a million to nothing on national tv. even great programs go though some tough times and texas fans should definitely realize this.

on a side note, a girl that works for one of our company's for the summer attends a&m and she is justin warren's girlfriend and she is a former lufkin panther cheerleader that attends a&m. can you believe that a former panther with a former redraider. just not right. :eek:

[jtk1519]

You also see how Michael Vick is getting the "HECK" beat out of him and missing half of seasons and entire seasons. The pure running QB in the NFL means he wont last long because his going to be taken hits that will send him to the hospital. :(

I do agree with that to a certain extent. It is worth noting that Vince hasnt suffered any kind of real injury (requiring him to miss a game) so far in his career. Vick was injured a couple of times during his two year college career including missing a good deal of time his final year at V. Tech. He has also gone on to miss a lot of games in 2 of his 4 NFL seasons. It is also worth noting that Vick is about 6'0 210. Most RBs in the league are bigger than that. Vince is around 6'6 230 and still growing. I think Vince has a body capable of taking a lot more of a beating that any dual-threat QB in the league.

Vince is going to have to go to the right team if he wants to play QB in the NFL. A team like the Steelers are a good exapmle. Last year, Vince threw about 21 passes a game at Texas. Roethlisberger threw about 21 passes a game last year. A team with a solid running game where Vince can get 10 carries a game, while throwing around 20 a game, would be a very good fit. I dont think you can put him in Peyton Manning's offense and expect good things. Vince will be a first round pick and he will get a shot at QB. He may not make it, but he will get the shot. People have told him at every stage in his career that he couldnt make it as a QB, but he has done it time and time again. I think he can do it.

[pack0808]

i corrected my post about warren being on texas. he obviously play for a&m. i made that mistake because she used to date the guy from crocket that plays for texas. i cannot remember his name?? it is all unimportant but i thought it was funny that a former panther and raider were together. she said he hates lufkin. lol

[pack0808]

just for grins and giggles like jtk likes to say, i did the math. instead of 11 interceptions last year vy would have had 15 or 16 on the year if he threw ball 94 more times to match reggie's 344 attempts. reggie had only 4 interceptions in 344 attempts while young had an amazing 11 int's in only 250 attempts. so mcneal threw 1 int in every 86 throws which is astounding!! while young threw an 1 int every 22 attempts which is very poor. one more stat. reggie was 3rd in overall qb rating in the big12 at 137.4 , only behind jason white and barely behind tech's sonny cunbie at 138.5. vince young's qb rating was a respectable 128.4 but that was almost 10 points lower then reggies overall qb rating. :eek:


i did not want to play the stat game again but you chose to play that game and i had to play. i had not said one disrespectful thing about young in this thread. not one!! i said only positive things about him. from now on, if there is a vy thread i promise to never put anything in about reggie to avoid these silly arguments. but i promise that it will still come up no matter if i do or not. lol

[dada]

Both are great players who represent Texas High School football. They will both represent the state on the next level also. These arguments are worthless. Those who saw more of Reggie will say that Reggie is better and Vice Versa. I watched every game Vince played his Sr. year and I only saw Reggie in the state game..so I might be biased towards Vince...but that's taking nothing away from Reggie. But Vince at A&M and Reggie at UT....would the results be the same???? I doubt it...but that's just my opinion. The coulda, woulda, shoulda stats are crazy....If Vince WOULDA went to Florida St like he said early in his career, he might be going on his 2nd Heisman run....who knows, Both are great Players.

[Texasfrog]

I do agree with that to a certain extent. It is worth noting that Vince hasnt suffered any kind of real injury (requiring him to miss a game) so far in his career. Vick was injured a couple of times during his two year college career including missing a good deal of time his final year at V. Tech. He has also gone on to miss a lot of games in 2 of his 4 NFL seasons. It is also worth noting that Vick is about 6'0 210. Most RBs in the league are bigger than that. Vince is around 6'6 230 and still growing. I think Vince has a body capable of taking a lot more of a beating that any dual-threat QB in the league.

Vince is going to have to go to the right team if he wants to play QB in the NFL. A team like the Steelers are a good exapmle. Last year, Vince threw about 21 passes a game at Texas. Roethlisberger threw about 21 passes a game last year. A team with a solid running game where Vince can get 10 carries a game, while throwing around 20 a game, would be a very good fit. I dont think you can put him in Peyton Manning's offense and expect good things. Vince will be a first round pick and he will get a shot at QB. He may not make it, but he will get the shot. People have told him at every stage in his career that he couldnt make it as a QB, but he has done it time and time again. I think he can do it.

I think V. Young would be right there with M.Vick in the NFL right now with the running skills. His been blessed by God in that area. But, I still think his got to tighten up his throwing mechanics (alot) before his going to make it as a starting NFL QB. He'll get a shot just for his great God-given talent (legs). I just worry about his mechanics "ALOT."

I'm not going to get into this player or that player thing. But, Reggie McNeal's throwing mechanics are alot better than V. Youngs.

[jtk1519]

Vince's throwing problems arent as bad as some believe. His throwing motion isnt really the issue. It's his footwork. A lot of the poor passes you see from Vince are the result of poor footwork. If he would set himself better and learn to use his entire body to throw, he would put up passing number comparable to most QBs. A lot of times he throws off of one foot and he doesnt shift his weight properly threw the throwing motion. From what I understand, this is what Steve McNair has really been work on him with and it has resulted in more zip and control on the ball.

You cant start screwing with his arm too much. For good or bad, he grew up throwing that way and that is what he is comfortable with. It's really not that big of a deal. It just lowers the balls release point, but Vince is so tall anyway that it doesnt really matter. If you compare Vince's throwing motion to other QBs, his release point is at about the same level as a 6'1 or 6'2 QB with more of a "traditional" motion. If a short QB like Reggie had Vince's throwing motion, he would never make it in the NFL and probably not college football either.

My opinion on the Reggie vs. Vince comparison is simple. Reggie, on his own, is a very good QB. He is surrounded by crap, but he is a good one. However, I dont think it is fair to try and compare Reggie to Vince (though aggy can never learn that). Vince is still a very raw talent while Reggie is a LOT more polished. Vince is still developing as a QB. However, despite that fact, Vince is considered my almost every college football resource to be one of the most dangerous QBs in college football. Hell, all you have to do is read Mel Kipers Quote... "He's as feared with the ball in his hands as any quarterback in the history of the game." Imagine what Vince will be like when he reaches his peak. That is why the NFL will take Vince without hestitaion.

[dragonsdaddy]

i agree with kyper on his rating vy as the most feared qb, but it is because of his legs, not his arm. if there was a way to keep him bottled up in the pocket, and rush him a little too, he wouldn't be as fearsome, or at least the results wouldn't wreck the opponents. i don't doubt that some good coaching, which he may get after draft day, would go a long way towards developing vy into a pro qb. i also don't doubt that had he gone to a school with some good qb coaching, he'd be a long way there already.

[biki1121]

What a minute....... Did you just really post a "what if" in defense of VY???? What is the world did you do that for???? That young man is a great dual-threat QB who needs absolutely NO "what-ifs" to defend his playing ability. Be a fan to your team and don't get into that "fact" posting. Look at some of the other message boards that have "what-iffed" the stats to death. I am an Aggie fan and I will say that VY is one of the best QBs that I have seen in a long time. I think he will have a successful career in the NFL. I also think the same thing about RM. And I am smart enough to realize that Maroon tinted/ Orange tinted glasses are used to view this board daily. That is obvious by some of the responses.


Speaking of Vince, I really enjoyed his interview at the Big12 media day! Anyone else catch it or read it?

[dada]

What a minute....... Did you just really post a "what if" in defense of VY???? What is the world did you do that for???? That young man is a great dual-threat QB who needs absolutely NO "what-ifs" to defend his playing ability. Be a fan to your team and don't get into that "fact" posting. Look at some of the other message boards that have "what-iffed" the stats to death. I am an Aggie fan and I will say that VY is one of the best QBs that I have seen in a long time. I think he will have a successful career in the NFL. I also think the same thing about RM. And I am smart enough to realize that Maroon tinted/ Orange tinted glasses are used to view this board daily. That is obvious by some of the responses.


Speaking of Vince, I really enjoyed his interview at the Big12 media day! Anyone else catch it or read it?

I missed it..but I did catch OU's Red/white game on foxsports yesterday

[rantanamo]

Ever think that besides just being an Aggie, Reggie takes a lot of shots from UT fans because of his antics before even enrolling at A&M?

[pack0808]

what were his so called antics??

[Smackie]

jtk here is a link that will sum this argument up.


http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=6743

[dada]

jtk here is a link that will sum this argument up.


http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=6743

The best think I got from this that makes the most sense was one of the readers, comments:

QB Crystal Ball
Posted by Techaroo on Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:47 am

"VY gets the wins.
Reggie gets the sympathy.
Tech QB's get the yardage."

[jtk1519]

Matt Hayes wrote that article... nothing else needs to be said.

Good line though, even from a moron...

McNeal plays for the Longhorns' stepsister

:D :D :D

[Smackie]

So is it that Matt Hayes is a so called moron because of this article? Or do you generally disagree with what he says? Look here, if you don't believe it or not the guy was right. Young is getting most of the pub right now because he plays on the better team. Just because you play on the better team does not make you the better QB. That is why the argument that is so often thrown around about Young's record compared to Reggie's is weak.

RIGHT now McNeal is the more complete QB, and he will go in the first or second round of the NFL draft depending on his performance this season. You here all these comparisons of Young being like Michael Vick. When in reality it is Reggie who is closer to that comparison of the two.

[dada]

So is it that Matt Hayes is a so called moron because of this article? Or do you generally disagree with what he says? Look here, if you don't believe it or not the guy was right. Young is getting most of the pub right now because he plays on the better team. Just because you play on the better team does not make you the better QB. That is why the argument that is so often thrown around about Young's record compared to Reggie's is weak.

RIGHT now McNeal is the more complete QB, and he will go in the first or second round of the NFL draft depending on his performance this season. You here all these comparisons of Young being like Michael Vick. When in reality it is Reggie who is closer to that comparison of the two.
This same analogy could have been used when they were in High School...Lufkin had the better team, Madison made it to the Semis becasue of Young. Young is getting the pub because he is making a GOOD team BETTER. Either you love Texas and hate A&M..vice versa...there is seldom an unbiased opinion on these two great quaterbacks.

[dada]

What's the definition of "A more Complete" Qb??? I mean it's not like one guy wiped another guy out statwise last year. Young threw 11 ints..McNeal threw 4....but you forget Mcneal was sacked 23 times....Young 9. Some argue that it's because Young is on the better team or you can say..in situations where he could have been sacked, he made the play to avoid it. Take away the int's..Young ran for 1079 yards and 14tds...McNeal ran for 718 and 8 tds..Would Texas be preseason #2 if Young wasnt there. I'm not a horn or a Aggie fan...but I just don't see how you can say one is BETTER or more complete than the other...my honestly...1000yds passing and 100 rushing seems a bit more complete to me. Yall might rip me for this..but Reggie has played on some very talented teams...in high school so when he got around players as talented as he was...he pretty muched leveled off...Young had a CRAPPY high school team..those who saw madison KNEW it was a 3 man team..and all KEYED ON ONE PERSON...and he still single handily almost got to state..he seperated himself on a crappy high school team..now he's seperating himself on a GOOD college team in one of the toughest conferences in the nation. 2 losses as a starter.....2 in high school?...I'll take him in a heartbeat. So besides Reggie throwwing fewer ints's...what makes him more complete than Vince?? Just a curious fan of BOTH wanting to know.

[jtk1519]

I got quite a chuckle reading this...

McNeal has better career numbers -- and has been a more productive player -- than Young, yet Young is everybody's All-American

You want to know why I call Hayes a moron, it's because of statements like that. I wonder if that idiot has any clue that Vince red-shirted while Reggie did not. Of course Reggies has better numbers... he's been playing for a year longer than Vince.

Why dont we compare how their career numbers stacked up after each finished their soph. years...

Reggie
Passing - 2238 yards, 14 TDs and 10 INTs... Rushing - 507 yards and 4 TDs

Vince
Passing - 3004 yards, 18 TDs and 18 INTs... Rushing - 2077 yards and 25 TDs

I wonder why ole' Haynes didnt mention those stats. Maybe because he's one of the most biased tools in the buisness.

Furthermore, if both QBs duplicate their numbers from last year for the rest of their college careers, this is how their career numbers will stack up...

Reggie
Passing - 7820 yards and 28 TDs... Rushing - 1225 yards and 12 TDs
Total Offense - 9045 yards and 40 TDs in 4 seasons

Vince
Passing - 6702 yards and 42 TDs... Rushing - 4235 yards and 53 TDs
Total Offense - 10937 yards and 95 TDs in 4 seasons

Vince gaines more total yards in a much more balanced fashion (making him even harder to defend), he scores more points and leads his team to more wins. So... Who is the more complete QB?

[dada]

I got quite a chuckle reading this...



You want to know why I call Hayes a moron, it's because of statements like that. I wonder if that idiot has any clue that Vince red-shirted while Reggie did not. Of course Reggies has better numbers... he's been playing for a year longer than Vince.

Why dont we compare how their career numbers stacked up after each finished their soph. years...

Reggie
Passing - 2238 yards, 14 TDs and 10 INTs... Rushing - 507 yards and 4 TDs

Vince
Passing - 3004 yards, 18 TDs and 18 INTs... Rushing - 2077 yards and 25 TDs

I wonder why ole' Haynes didnt mention those stats. Maybe because he's one of the most biased tools in the buisness.

Furthermore, if both QBs duplicate their numbers from last year for the rest of their college careers, this is how their career numbers will stack up...

Reggie
Passing - 7820 yards and 28 TDs... Rushing - 1225 yards and 12 TDs
Total Offense - 9045 yards and 40 TDs in 4 seasons

Vince
Passing - 6702 yards and 42 TDs... Rushing - 4235 yards and 53 TDs
Total Offense - 10937 yards and 95 TDs in 4 seasons

Vince gaines more total yards in a much more balanced fashion (making him even harder to defend), he scores more points and leads his team to more wins. So... Who is the more complete QB?
Same thing I said....I guess it's because Vince had "Ugly" form... :D

[mollypollyolly]

duh!!! vince young always ends up @ the end of the season has more good games than bad he is an awesome qb i dunno what ut would do without him :)

[jtk1519]

Same thing I said....I guess it's because Vince had "Ugly" form... :D

That's exactly what it means. Anytime you hear the phrase "not a complete QB" when describing Vince, that is just a fancy code way of saying "we know all the stats and numbers back up the fact that he is a complete QB in the truest since of the term (albeit still very raw), but we dont like the way he looks throwing the ball." I cant help but laugh at some of these clowns. :D

[Smackie]

This same analogy could have been used when they were in High School...Lufkin had the better team, Madison made it to the Semis becasue of Young. Young is getting the pub because he is making a GOOD team BETTER. Either you love Texas and hate A&M..vice versa...there is seldom an unbiased opinion on these two great quaterbacks.

When Madison was making their run to the title I never heard anyone say that team was a crappy team, or a GOOD team. They were one game away from playing Lufkin in the title game. If it was not for the speedy Chad Schroeder (who outran Young for the back breaking 80 yard td), that very same Madison team would have completed an improbable comeback. Beating a Westlake team that was up by 21 points at the half. It is funny how Texas fans are quick to make excusses for Young when it suits them.

When Young and McNeal were in High school it was well publisized that Young was the better of the two. Bobby Burton labled Reggie as an athlete, because he wanted to seperate him from Young. By the way if any of you attended that Westlake v. Madison game. You would have witnessed some very impressive throws made by Vince Young. I have not seen him throw like that since.

[Smackie]

Originally posted by jtk1519
Furthermore, if both QBs duplicate their numbers from last year for the rest of their college careers, this is how their career numbers will stack up...

Well that is just a classic curve ball jtk. Hmmm... I will throw out bogus assumed stats and forget about the facts. The fact is that McNeal as a freshman played only 8 games and started 1. Young's redshirt freshman year he played 12 games and started 5. That is four more games as a freshman, and four more started. Right there alone Young will have a leg up on stats than McNeal. Still that is assuming they put up the same stats, which is a silly thought. I don't know about you I would expect both to improve over last year.

But I want stop there...Young has had one offensive coordinator his whole carrer at Texas. McNeal had two alone his freshman year, and the OC he is now playing under. Under those circumstances he still has adapted better than Young, and putting up better stats overall than Young.

Furthermore, if your QB is running for those assumed 4,000 plus yards. Then that moron is right. Young is a QB, that does not know he is a RB.

[jtk1519]

But I want stop there...Young has had one offensive coordinator his whole carrer at Texas. McNeal had two alone his freshman year, and the OC he is now playing under. Under those circumstances he still has adapted better than Young, and putting up better stats overall than Young.

Hmmmm... three different OCs or Greg Davis?

Advantage: Reggie

[dada]

When Madison was making their run to the title I never heard anyone say that team was a crappy team, or a GOOD team. They were one game away from playing Lufkin in the title game. If it was not for the speedy Chad Schroeder (who outran Young for the back breaking 80 yard td), that very same Madison team would have completed an improbable comeback. Beating a Westlake team that was up by 21 points at the half. It is funny how Texas fans are quick to make excusses for Young when it suits them.

When Young and McNeal were in High school it was well publisized that Young was the better of the two. Bobby Burton labled Reggie as an athlete, because he wanted to seperate him from Young. By the way if any of you attended that Westlake v. Madison game. You would have witnessed some very impressive throws made by Vince Young. I have not seen him throw like that since.

Every one that played Madison knew they had ONE person to worry about and that way Young. Courtney Lewis made a few plays but everyone keyed on Young and he still did his thing...Westlake had to LB's shadowing Young and hs still did his thing....Schroder scored on a reverse...I wouldn't say he "Out Ran" Young....by the time they realized where the ball was he was 40 yds down field.

[KT2000]

I'm surprised this debate is actually still getting play at this point. It was an interesting discussion three years ago.

The only stats that will hold any real meaning, as far as how each player is ultimately remembered for their college career, is win-loss record.

VY is 17-2 in one and a half years as a starter, and Reggie is 11-12 in two full years as a starter. VY is fresh off of a Rose Bowl MVP performance and Reggie spent most of his time against Tennessee picking himself off of the ground in the Cotton Bowl.

The biggest difference between the two in their changeover from high school to college is that Vince has maintained (and built upon) his dominating field presence. Reggie's only shown glimpses of the magic he produced in high school in games like Oklahoma his freshman year and the game at Oklahoma State last year. Vince is just a physical freak of nature's who has proved much more durable than Reggie at a higher level of play so far, and I think that is also the key thing that will separate these players in the draft. VY's physical presence is also what could elevate him to a status greater than even Michael Vick one day, because unlike Vick, VY can shrug off contact from DLs and LBs.

Vince has better players and coaches around him than Reggie (although many Aggies will debate that for some reason). The proof is in the results. When people look back on the college careers of these two players I think Reggie will be known as a good (not great) player, and Vince is definitely going to be more revered/respected/etc. as being one of the most dynamic football talents this state's ever produced.....and most importantly...because his teams WON.

[dada]

I'm surprised this debate is actually still getting play at this point. It was an interesting discussion three years ago.

The only stats that will hold any real meaning, as far as how each player is ultimately remembered for their college career, is win-loss record.

VY is 17-2 in one and a half years as a starter, and Reggie is 11-12 in two full years as a starter. VY is fresh off of a Rose Bowl MVP performance and Reggie spent most of his time against Tennessee picking himself off of the ground in the Cotton Bowl.

The biggest difference between the two in their changeover from high school to college is that Vince has maintained (and built upon) his dominating field presence. Reggie's only shown glimpses of the magic he produced in high school in games like Oklahoma his freshman year and the game at Oklahoma State last year. Vince is just a physical freak of nature's who has proved much more durable than Reggie at a higher level of play so far, and I think that is also the key thing that will separate these players in the draft. VY's physical presence is also what could elevate him to a status greater than even Michael Vick one day, because unlike Vick, VY can shrug off contact from DLs and LBs.

Vince has better players and coaches around him than Reggie (although many Aggies will debate that for some reason). The proof is in the results. When people look back on the college careers of these two players I think Reggie will be known as a good (not great) player, and Vince is definitely going to be more revered/respected/etc. as being one of the most dynamic football talents this state's ever produced.....and most importantly...because his teams WON.

Standing Ovation!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
I like both of these guys....I just hate when you have a "In-house" who's better thing going on. Win/loss records speak volumes...Vince may throw more int's or whatever, but he finds ways to win.

[jtk1519]

KT2000 is my new hero. :D

[pack0808]

quote from kt 2000 The only stats that will hold any real meaning, as far as how each player is ultimately remembered for their college career, is win-loss record.

VY is 17-2 in one and a half years as a starter, and Reggie is 11-12 in two full years as a starter. VY is fresh off of a Rose Bowl MVP performance and Reggie spent most of his time against Tennessee picking himself off of the ground in the Cotton Bowl.

coming from a guy that has great knowledge in football i am shocked?? yes wins play a bit part on how they will be remembered in college but it certainly does not mean one is better then the other overall. ut syndrome even infect's the greatest sport's minds. so win's are that all that matters on which qb is better?? so if v young went to a team like lousiana lafayette or buffalo and r mcneil went to usc you would say reggie is clearly better because of more wins?? :rolleyes: you have to be kidding right?? what really get's me is that your type makes the exact opposite argument on why r mcneal won a state championship and had more wins in high school then young. hypocrisy is an understatement!!



look, i am so burned out on arguing with ut obsessed fans like jtk on this subject that i give up. if r mcneal would have went to texas and young would have went to a&m jtk would be saying the exact opposite in my opinion. i have given all of the stats and it is obvious mcneal had better stats last year with a much less talented team. reggie can make throws vince could only dream of making and most realist thinking with a clear head can see that. i will give you that vince is the better runner but he is definitely not the fastest runner and this has been proven over and over with college and nfl stop watches. young is harder to tackle then reggie no doubt and that is why he would be a great running back. i have given all of my reasons why i think r mcneal is better at qb and texas fans have given all of their reasons why v young is better. yada yada yada. lets just sit back and watch and see. we will see who ends up being the better qb in the nfl. then one of us will be right!! i really like my chances though. :)

oh and dad4?? please quit acting like you are a neutral observer. ;) it is painfully obvious that you are from houston.

[jtk1519]

pack0808,

You can spin it all you want for as long as you want, but it is clear that all the stats and data clearly show Vince to be the better QB, athlete, football player, etc... period. Vince has the wins, stats, pub, etc. to support him and all Reggie has is a bunch of "what ifs." What if Reggie played for USC or had better talent, blah, blah, blah. People see Reggie and say "What if." People look at Vince and say "What next." Plus, everybody will stay that Vince hasnt come close to reaching his full potential. He is still one of the rawest talents in the game. He's also been able to do what he has done despite playing for one of the worst OC's in college football.

I have said time and time again that I like Reggie and would pull for him if he hadnt gone to aggy. However, with his numbers, I dont care if he played at USC, Notre Dame, Ohio State, whatever... he STILL wouldnt be as good as Vince. There is no denying that clear and simple truth though I expect you and others will keep trying.

[pack0808]

yeah and i promise you will see the clear and simple truth when you compare nfl careers. ;) i really cannot wait. this is one argument i cannot wait to rub in when the time comes. :D i will gladly eat my crow if i am wrong. yeah, and "WHAT IF" vince played for lufkin then maybe he would have a hs ring. blah blah blah. hypocrisy!! and lmao at young playing for one of the worst oc's in football. did you forget he plays for one of the best ol's in football and has had one of the best rb's in football for the past 2 years?? amnesia??

[jtk1519]

and lmao at young playing for one of the worst oc's in football. did you forget he plays for one of the best ol's in football and has had one of the best rb's in football for the past 2 years?? amnesia??

Thanks for proving my point better than I ever could. Texas has that awesome O-line, Vince, and Cedric... and they still couldnt win a NC or beat the the land thieves. Imagine how bad an OC you have to be to have all that talent and still cant win it all. Of course, this is nothing new... Major Applewhite, Ricky Williams, Chris Simms, Roy Williams, BJ Johnson, Cedric Benson, etc. Vince is the one guy that has shown he may be talented enough to overcome Greg Davis and actually win games despite the idiot in the press box.

Since you aggy and those of like minds like to make excuses and what ifs, ask yourselves this... What if Vince had gone to USC or Tennessee or any other school with a history of great QB development. Just something to "what if" about.

[pack0808]

yeah it must be tough on a qb with a great rb and a great ol. i got a "what if" for you?? what if vince went to a&m?? he might have 30 picks in 1 year in a passing offense?? i just love how you put anybody that doubts your beloved v young in the same category as aggy fans. i am far as an aggy fan as you can find. no offense to aggies. i am a lufkin panther fan and a iowa hawkeye fan and i happen to know how good reggie is because i am a lp fan. again, we will see!! the truth hurts i guess??

[Hdshrinker]

This time I have to dis-agree KT. One man does not make a 11 man team. You looking at the win/loss records does not necessarily rate one QB over the other. Coaches make a difference as well as the talent in front of him. Yeah, Reggie found himself on the carpet most of the Tenn game. Did he throw himself down there? Or did an offense line get overwhlemed? Young has, as Texas has had...the best of talent in front of him. Texas gets the creme dela creme most times, A&M gets what's left and the rest of Texas picks at what they leave. Not only that, but Texas is gluttonous. We all know what kind of running backs they keep in their backfield. The small skatback is not their M.O.. Yet....they gave Jarrell Wilkerson (from SA) a full ride. Why do you suppose? He's too small to play DB. Perhaps it just keeps him out of the hands of others who system he would better fit. Just some thoughts......

[Smackie]

Every one that played Madison knew they had ONE person to worry about and that way Young. Courtney Lewis made a few plays but everyone keyed on Young and he still did his thing...Westlake had to LB's shadowing Young and hs still did his thing....Schroder scored on a reverse...I wouldn't say he "Out Ran" Young....by the time they realized where the ball was he was 40 yds down field.

What game were you watching Dada? When Schroder scored that td it was third and forever. If you remember correctly he was sacked and then Belew lost yardage on the next play. Schroder scored on what looked to me to be a QB bootleg, but many watching the game with me said he just scrambled and took it to the house. It was Young who was giving chase once he realized Chad was down the field, and he got smoked! The rest is history!!

[Smackie]

Since jtk like to throw out stats....here are a few interesting stats for Texas fans to think about.

PASSING ATT COMP YDS TD
Vince Young 250 148 1849 12

RUSHING CAR YDS AVG TD
Cedric Benson 326 1834 5.6 19
Vince Young 167 1079 6.5 14

V. Young threw for 15 yds more than Benson ran, and he threw for 770 yds more than he ran for .

Texas WR's: They have 15 listed. Limas Sweed is the only one with more than one catch, and that was for 23 catches for 263yds. Combined the 15 WR's listed on the depth chart have a combined 33 catches amoung them. Just a little someting to tink about.

With Benson gone from that offense, and not a proven WR he will have a tougher time throwing the ball. He does have a very good TE in Thomas returning, but throwing the ball will be difficult. I say difficult because he will not have 1834 yds from Benson to pick up the slack.

I don't want anyone thinking that I am bashing Young. I think this kid is a true talent, and possibly with better coaching could be much better than he is at this point. But to hear people act as if he is the best QB ever is just hard to listen to, when you look at the whole picture. Like I said before. Everyone likes to throw out the record. I heard Mack Brown on ESPN this morning doing the very same thing. Young does not make Texas a one man team by any stretch of the imagination. He has a serious supporting cast that helped win those games. Talent on both sides of the ball. He lost the biggest support system of them all in Benson. Let's see how well he performs during the season. I am sure we will pick this discussion up then.

[KT2000]

Maybe the key thing to factor in here, based on the responses, is that Reggie CHOSE to go to A&M so I really don't buy into the sympathy vote. I didn't attend either college or go to either of their high schools, so I can actually step back and take a more objective look at it.

I've maintained that Vince was a better QB overall than Reggie since they were juniors in high school, so I'm really not effected by the different environments they are in now in college. Reggie has great straight line speed, but Vince is much more effective at getting defenders off balance and shrugging off tackles while also having the ability to outrun people to the endzone for long scores. Both players have very good arms, and Reggie has a more textbook delivery. The biggest gap between VY and Reggie is field presence. Vince is otherwordly in that regard, and that's their main point of separation in my opinion.

Of course, VY having better players around him matters but that wasn't the point of my post even though I did include that fact. I simply stated why VY will be the more revered of the two for their college careers, and quite frankly, it's not even going to be worthy of debate by the time each moves on to the next level.

As far as the NFL goes, in my honest opinion, I don't believe McNeal's future will be at QB in the long run. Reggie has Bert Emanuel written all over him in my opinion. I just don't think he's strong enough to stand in the pocket with guys like Dwight Freeney and Ray Lewis running at him.

If you don't believe VY will be drafted much higher, go look at what just about every pro scout is saying and you'll find that VY's stock is far beyond Reggie as a QB in the eyes of NFL people. There is a good reason for that, but I'm not sure I can explain that to hardcore A&M fans because none will listen to it.

[jtk1519]

Texas WR's: They have 15 listed. Limas Sweed is the only one with more than one catch, and that was for 23 catches for 263yds. Combined the 15 WR's listed on the depth chart have a combined 33 catches amoung them. Just a little someting to tink about.

Man, that makes Vince even more impressive. Everybody knows how bad Texas' WR core was last year and Vince was still able to throw for over 1800 yards by using his TEs more despite the fact that the strength of Vince's passing game is the deep ball. Well, "bad" may be the wrong word. They were very young and very inexperienced and it showed a lot. Tony Jefferey was the only senior and he wasnt great... at all. The fact that he was Texas' leading receiver will let you know just down that group of receivers was. There will still be a very young group of receivers this year including 3 sophs. and at least one freshman (you may see a true freshman like Jermichael Finley in the rotation somewhere), but hopefully Limas Sweed will step up and become that go to guy. Everybody expects a lot out of Jordan Shipley and hopefully he can provide that deep threat that Vince needs. I've said it 100 times before, but if you give Vince some sure handed receivers that can stretch the field vertically, he will throw for over 2500 yards and cut his INTs down by half.

BTW, the "lack of talent at aggy" argument doesnt hold up. Granted, aggy doesnt have a great O-line and you can blame them for all of Reggie's sacks and his mediocre rushing numbers, but Reggie definatly had a talent advantage over Vince when it came to the WR dept. Well, maybe not pure talent, but Reggie had a very good mix of talent and experience at WR. 4 of aggy's top 5 receivers last year were not only WRs, but they were Jrs. or better led by Terrance Murphy who was of course a 2nd round draft pick. So Reggie was throwing to a bunch of experienced WRs and a future 2nd round draft pick while Vince was throwing to a bunch of freshmen WRs with one average senior. Advantage: Reggie... BIG time.

So to answer a point that I have seen made many times... If Vince had gone to aggy to play with that group of WRs, I think you would have seen Vince put up passing numbers very close to what Reggie did and Vince Vince would still rush for a couple hundered more yards that Reggie even behind that weak aggy O-line.

[Hdshrinker]

Maybe the key thing to factor in here, based on the responses, is that Reggie CHOSE to go to A&M so I really don't buy into the sympathy vote. I didn't attend either college or go to either of their high schools, so I can actually step back and take a more objective look at it.

Of course, VY having better players around him matters but that wasn't the point of my post even though I did include that fact. I simply stated why VY will be the more revered of the two for their college careers, and quite frankly, it's not even going to be worthy of debate by the time each moves on to the next level.

If you don't believe VY will be drafted much higher, go look at what just about every pro scout is saying and you'll find that VY's stock is far beyond Reggie as a QB in the eyes of NFL people. There is a good reason for that, but I'm not sure I can explain that to hardcore A&M fans because none will listen to it.



I'm not a UT fan or an Aggie fan but a football fan. In fact My son maybe be going to one of those "other" Texas teams. Talent around them does matter.
As for the other commenter who said Reggie had a better receiving core??? ARE you CRAZY??? :) Either way you can have all the Jerry Rice's you want and it won't do any good if you don't have the time to throw to them or if you are running for your life all the time trying to throw to them. Ask Vick with Atlanta



As for NFL stock, I am reminded of Rich Gannon, and Brett Farr.......

[jtk1519]

As for the other commenter who said Reggie had a better receiving core??? ARE you CRAZY??? Either way you can have all the Jerry Rice's you want and it won't do any good if you don't have the time to throw to them or if you are running for your life all the time trying to throw to them. Ask Vick with Atlanta

Huh? Reggie had time to throw 344 passes last year, a figure on par with several QBs who finished with more passing yards including Utah's Alex Smith and UTEP's Jordan Palmer. Reggie ran over 80 more total plays last year than Vince did.

[Smackie]

As far as the NFL goes, in my honest opinion, I don't believe McNeal's future will be at QB in the long run. Reggie has Bert Emanuel written all over him in my opinion. I just don't think he's strong enough to stand in the pocket with guys like Dwight Freeney and Ray Lewis running at him.

If you don't believe VY will be drafted much higher, go look at what just about every pro scout is saying and you'll find that VY's stock is far beyond Reggie as a QB in the eyes of NFL people. There is a good reason for that, but I'm not sure I can explain that to hardcore A&M fans because none will listen to it.

You can't be serious about comparing McNeal to Bert Emanuel. Just what are pro scouts saying about Young as a QB, that is not being said about Reggie? A fair comparison of a player in the NFL for Young would be Matt Jones. He is currently a WR. Young needs to work on his passing if he wants to be considered a serious QB for the NFL. Most of your own analysis of Young strictly deal with his running ability. His field presence has nothing to do with him finding recievers open, but knowing when to run.

[KT2000]

McNeal to Emanuel comparison in light of the fact I think McNeal will eventually be a WR (in the NFL), and a potentially good one like Emanuel became (former QB). Again, durability is a huge issue when it comes to being a QB in the NFL for obvious reasons and Reggie won't tip the scales nearly as much in that regard as Vince will.

Contrary to popular belief, Vince can pass (he has a higher career efficiency rating than either Chris Simms or Major Applewhite at this point), so that isn't going to hold VY back as much as most people who don't pay attention to Texas that much think.

As far as what the scouts are saying...most feel Vince will go in the top 15 somewhere when he decides to come out (he has one year of eligibility left after this year) and I'd be shocked to see Reggie drafted in the first two rounds next fall unless he just goes off this year.

[LeanderLions3033]

How bout this, who cares about stats, wins, losses, everything but this. In the games that UT won, look at how Vince took over the game. Whether it be his stats in the game, his ability to throw when he "needs" to throw, or just being a decoy and the opposition focusing on him. Greg Davis didnt really make an attempt to open the playbook until we played Okie Lite. I'm not gonna play the whole, if these two swapped teams then this would happen. Vince is a gamer, plain and simple. Aggy fans that say that Vince will be a wr in the NFL need to realize that Reggie has those same chances with his duribility issues. I don't care what kind of excuses you have, if Reggie could take over a game the way Vince could, you probably wouldnt have the same record because obviously UT has the better team, but i guarantee they wouldnt be 2 games under .500, as much as i hate aggy, they are a better team than the 11-13 record they show under Reggie, or maybe thats just what all the aggy fans have imbeded in my head since they will beat UT at Pyle Field this year :rolleyes: . It was said earlier and i think that quote was key to this entire thread.

Vince is the great qb that gets the wins
Reggie is the great qb that gets the sympathy from his fans (keep in mind, i do think he is one hell of a qb, IMO the 3rd best qb in college football, but i don't think either aggy fans or Longhorn fans have a legit argument on who the better qb is)
And Tech qbs are the great qbs that get the yardage.

[dada]

oh and dad4?? please quit acting like you are a neutral observer. ;) it is painfully obvious that you are from houston.[/QUOTE]


I'm gonna go out on a limb and say....you're from LUFKIN??? :) Serioulsy..I'm a Seminole fan...cant get any neutral than that. But the NATIONAL critics are giving Vince the pub...it's the home town guys who are giving Reggie his dues. If I had a choice..I'd rather be National than local...and there is a reason for that.

[dada]

What game were you watching Dada? When Schroder scored that td it was third and forever. If you remember correctly he was sacked and then Belew lost yardage on the next play. Schroder scored on what looked to me to be a QB bootleg, but many watching the game with me said he just scrambled and took it to the house. It was Young who was giving chase once he realized Chad was down the field, and he got smoked! The rest is history!! You're are right...it was like 3rd and 30.. and I knew it was a reverse or bootleg...and like you said..."Once he realized"..he then gave chase...if anyone gets caught after having a 40 yd jump...they should switch sports.

[wide-e-wide]

Favorite quote:

Dan Fouts during the Rose Bowl- "At this point, I don't think Michigan's defense could tackle Vince Young in a phone booth"

[sweetpea]

I have watch both since high school, I even coached Mc Neal in pee wee league. Yes both will make it to the NFL, but I personally think both will play another postion like WR.

McNeal , while a as a kid didn't want to get hit, I used to joke to him about he better have jets under his butt if he didn't want to get hit. As far as QB, Reggie does have better mech. in passing cause of us teaching him very young, then getting more coaching in High school and College. Reggie never had to juke and jive because of his break away speed. That's his major flaw right now. He thinks that if he gets clear, he can still out run everyone.

Young, didn't have the line Lp had in high school to help him when passing , so he learn to use his GOD given talent to make plays. My cuz was his Wr. ,his Sr. year. Sonier was his name. SO, I got to look at Young alot, too. People are right about young being a rb is a big frame.


If both where coached in a small town, Young would have had a better passing mech. If both where in Houston, McNeal would have better fakes and jukes.

Bottom line is both are Once in a life time kids, they are far and few between. If I was an NFL team Coach, and had a good OL with Wr. , then I would get McNeal. I f I didn't, I would get Young, because of his God given talent to fake and juke.

[dada]

I have watch both since high school, I even coached Mc Neal in pee wee league. Yes both will make it to the NFL, but I personally think both will play another postion like WR.

McNeal , while a as a kid didn't want to get hit, I used to joke to him about he better have jets under his butt if he didn't want to get hit. As far as QB, Reggie does have better mech. in passing cause of us teaching him very young, then getting more coaching in High school and College. Reggie never had to juke and jive because of his break away speed. That's his major flaw right now. He thinks that if he gets clear, he can still out run everyone.

Young, didn't have the line Lp had in high school to help him when passing , so he learn to use his GOD given talent to make plays. My cuz was his Wr. ,his Sr. year. Sonier was his name. SO, I got to look at Young alot, too. People are right about young being a rb is a big frame.


If both where coached in a small town, Young would have had a better passing mech. If both where in Houston, McNeal would have better fakes and jukes.

Bottom line is both are Once in a life time kids, they are far and few between. If I was an NFL team Coach, and had a good OL with Wr. , then I would get McNeal. I f I didn't, I would get Young, because of his God given talent to fake and juke.
Sonier? He wouldnt happen to be the one with Solange is he?

[Hdshrinker]

I agree with you Swetpea. I don't think either of them will be QB's in the NFL. I think they'll be what they are athletes. NE has a way of taking athletes and making them fit where they want them. That's a concept I like.... it's sorta like the football equivilent to Billy Bean baseball.

[dada]

I agree with you Swetpea. I don't think either of them will be QB's in the NFL. I think they'll be what they are athletes. NE has a way of taking athletes and making them fit where they want them. That's a concept I like.... it's sorta like the football equivilent to Billy Bean baseball.
So does Pittsburg...with Steward and Randle-el. No one expected Culpepper to be a QB and look what he's done so far.

[Hdshrinker]

Pitt should have done that with "Stewart" from the beginning.

[wide-e-wide]

Pitt should have done that with "Stewart" from the beginning.

Slash was and still is extremely over-rated.

[dada]

Slash was and still is extremely over-rated.
I wouldnt expect anything less from a 'Cowboy' fan. ;)

[Hdshrinker]

Regardless. He's right....over-rated. Look what they have done with the rookie at the helm.

[sweetpea]

the bad thing about this is not 1 of us are better than any NFL player, even if he is over-rated or not. Top that off, it would be safe to say they got more money than we do too. :rolleyes:


we all are arm chair QB's, I learn that along time ago. Don't hate the player, hate the GAME. :)

[Hdshrinker]

Naaaaa...don't hate either..... just don't be hatin.....

[Smackie]

As far as what the scouts are saying...most feel Vince will go in the top 15 somewhere when he decides to come out (he has one year of eligibility left after this year) and I'd be shocked to see Reggie drafted in the first two rounds next fall unless he just goes off this year.

KT2000 here is a little tid bit I found from someone who has a little knowldge about the NFL draft:

First-round talent: Maybe. Mel Kiper Jr. rates QB Reggie McNeal among the top five in the country at his position.

[pack0808]

every nfl site i have looked at has reggie as a possible 1st rounder. oh at QUARTERBACK!! ;)

[mtbray]

That'd be a dream come true if VY became the savior of the Dallas Cowboys, and returned them to their proper place at the top!

[Smackie]

That'd be a dream come true if VY became the savior of the Dallas Cowboys, and returned them to their proper place at the top!

That is just crazy talk!