Vince vs. Reggie

[jtk1519]

OK, here it is, once and for all. The statistical breakdown of the two QBs for all to see. No bias, no maroon or burnt orange colored glasses... just the facts. The only thing you need to keep in mind here is that Vince is only a junior with a full year less than Reggie.

Career passing

Reggie - 54% of passes completed for 5029 yards, 28 TDs and 14 INTs
Vince - 59% of passes completed for 3004 yards, 18 TDs and 18 INTs

Career rushing

Reggie - gained 3.8 yards per carry while rushing for 1225 yards and 12 TDs... sacked 52 times
Vince - gained 7 yards per carry while rushing for 2077 yards and 25 TDs... sacked 19 times

Career total offense

Reggie - has accounted for 6254 yards of total offense (6.7 yards per play) and 40 TDs
Vince - has accounted for 5081 yards of total offense (7.3 yards per play) and 43 TDs

Head to head

Reggie - completed 52% of passes for 412 yards 1 TD, 2 INTs and 12 sacks... rushed 26 times for 7 yards (.27 ypc) and 1 TD... totaled 419 yards of total offense (4.9 yards per play) and 2 TDs

Vince - completed 65% of passes for 228 yards, I TD, 0 INTs and 1 sack... rushed 25 times for 183 yards (7.3 ypc) and 2 TDs... totaled 411 yards of total offense (8.1 yards per play) and 3 TDs

And of course, the only stat that matters

Reggie - 11-13 as a starter
Vince - 17-2 as a starter

Once again, bare in mind that Vince is still a full year behind Reggie.

[wide-e-wide]

This is a really tough one for me.
I love my Horns and VY...
but Reggie is from my hometown...so I support him too.
I don't think you could tackle Vince Young if you had him
cornered in a phone booth...
But I like Reggie's passing ability more that VY.
Who would I rather have on my team...hmmmmm
I gotta go with Vince...sorry Reggie.

[GTown02]

As a Longhorn fan, I gotta go with the saying "In Vince We Trust."

[nsmustang]

Both are great athletes. Saw VY at Madison and he was a man among boys that year. Also know Reggie"s come from behind state title win that year. Amazing play by both players. Can't help but wonder what Reggie's career woukd be like if he was in another program. A&M is still rebuilding but won't have it together
while he is there. What a shame-

[Favpack]

Based on pure mechanics - Reggie throws a beautiful ball - and throws all types of passes. Let's face it - Vince can't throw too well - he has no varying arsenal. His incredible running ability keeps D's off-balance - and he's decent at hitting a wide open receiver.

Reggie has not put up Jason White numbers because his overall offense has been hit and miss - and his D has been well below average for any team. I think both will have solid years - both will have some inconsistencies but I think both could be in the Heisman hunt late. VY probably stands the better chance because UT could again be in the BCS picture - I doubt the Ags will be.

No one has yet to answer the one thing Reggie's done that Vince hasn't :)

[pack0808]

reggie has won a championship. is that what you are looking for??

[pack0808]

i posted this on another thread but it really belongs in this one.


reggie mcneal 2004 stats att 344 comp 200 pct 58.1 yards 2791 td's 14 int's 4

vince young 2004 stats att 250 comp 148 pct 59.2 yards 1849 td's 12
int's 11



the most amazing stat to me is that mcneil threw the ball almost 100 more times then young and mcneil still had 7 less interceptions. young was 1 interception short of having as many int's as he did td's.


i know you will go back to the winning thing so remember this. the only player out of these 2 that has ever won a football championship is mcneil even though i do no think that is how you judge who is the better overall qb. a lot of the times winning has to do with who has the better team overall. a great qb can lose with a poor team while an average qb can win with a great team. i thought that was common sense?? i just think reggie has better throwing ability then vince and that makes him the better qb. i think they are about even in elusiveness but young is harder to tackle because of his size.

[Favpack]

reggie has won a championship. is that what you are looking for??

Well - actually that would be a second thing I suppose.

But, in college, Reggie has beaten OU (freshman year) and Vince and co. really have not even come close. A&M should have beaten OU this past year as well. OU is all that matters to an orange blood right? ;)

[pack0808]

yeah i pointed that out in a different thread. reggie had a shot at ou again last year also before he got injured. i think they were up at half??

[wide-e-wide]

Yeah they were up in the 3rd quarter. I saw
Reggie coming off the field holding his arm and
screamed "nooooooooooo!!!!" they almost had 'em...

If I remember correctly he went well into the season
with 0 int's ...and led the nation in turnovers or lack there of...

[jtk1519]

aggy like to blame a lot of things on defense or O-lines or whatever. So, I'm sure they wont have a problem if I offer an excuse for the only preceived flaw in VY's game... interceptions. Anybody with matter between the ears saw plainly last year that Vince and the passing game in general were hindered by a very young receiving core that did not play up to it's potential. When Cedric Benson is one of your team's top receivers, that will tell you that Vince wasnt working with a whole lot.

I will give Reggie credit for being a part of an amazingly talented Lufkin squad that won state, but since you want to bring up high school... take a look at this...

Senior seasons

Reggie - completed 44% of his passes for 2385 yards and 24 TDS... rushed for 856 yards (5.2 ypc) and 10 TDs

Vince - completed 59% of his passes for 2545 yards and 35 TDs to just 4 INTs... rushed for 1274 yards (11 ypc) and 35 TDs

That just goes to show you what Vince is capable of with receivers to get the ball to. His numbers just blew away anything Reggie did and he did it in one less game.

BTW, some video of VY in high school...

http://hornfans.com/recruiting/rpongett/clips/Younglong1.mpg
http://hornfans.com/recruiting/rpongett/clips/Younglonghlr2.mpg
http://hornfans.com/recruiting/rpongett/clips/Younglonghl3.mpg

[wide-e-wide]

And then there was that one game last January. classic...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/bogthekid/51907599.jpg

[mtbray]

Would anyone believe it's true if it was said that Reggie smokes bud?

[wide-e-wide]

hahahaha....I dunno.
But if he does he's got about a year to quit...
ask Ricky...

[pack0808]

that does not change anything either. reggie won more in highschool but did not have as good as stats as young but now reggie has better stats in college then young but young wins more. i wonder who played in a tougher district in hs reggie or vince?? i wonder where it would be easier to rack up the stats at. in the east texas district or the houston madison district?? that is not a tough one. looks like the scouts new better considering mcneal was the #1 recruit in the nation by almost every magazine and site that year.


oh and on the sack thing. reggie has thrown double the amount of passes young has so obviously you are going to have more sacks that is common sense. last year for example, reggie dropped back to pass almost 100 more times then young. who do you think is going to have more sacks.


hey see what you did duke!! look what happened!! i knew this was going to happen. ;) thanks a lot bro. some like mcneal and some like young and both can make some good arguments. we all could argue all day!! we will just have to wait and see in the future who was right. many are betting on mcneal and many are betting on young. all of the scouts that i have heard on tv and radio are really down on young's throwing ability though. we will just have to wait and see. one thing we can all agree on is they are both phenomenal athletes that will be playing in the nfl very soon. oh, i am not an aggie one bit. just getting that straight.

[scooter!]

Would anyone believe it's true if it was said that Reggie smokes bud?
I actually really associated with him back in 2001-2002-2003. Lets just say his personal business is his own personal business.

[wide-e-wide]

who me? never...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/bogthekid/images.jpg

[wide-e-wide]

We don't either...never touched the stuff.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/bogthekid/bigsnoop.jpg

[pack0808]

what college kid hasn't touched that stuff before?? not many!!

[wide-e-wide]

I didn't...I had like $15 and had to make a choice.
Let's just say beer won...hands down.
It just goes better with watching football.
Now playing Nintendo...that's a different story.

[ktchamp97]

that does not change anything either. reggie won more in highschool but did not have as good as stats as young but now reggie has better stats in college then young but young wins more. i wonder who played in a tougher district in hs reggie or vince?? i wonder where it would be easier to rack up the stats at. in the east texas district or the houston madison district?? that is not a tough one. looks like the scouts new better considering mcneal was the #1 recruit in the nation by almost every magazine and site that year.

Pack, Actually, Vince was the #1 recruit in the nation. He was also given the award for "Strongest Arm" at the Elite 11 camp that year.

No doubt Reggie played in a tougher district...granted. He also had a better team around him. Vince, on the other hand, carried that Madison team for 3 years.

Aggies (no, not you pack) love to bring up the fact that Reggie beat OU, yet they say that the reason Reggie has a losing record as a starter is because his team is so much worse...oh and you can't look at head to head matchups between Vince and Reggie either. Seems a bit contradictory.

Reggie does not have better numbers...he's just played longer and accumulated more numbers. Vince has 1200 less total yards, 3 more TD's, a better completion percentage, and more rushing yards in one full season less than Reggie and he has 6 more wins and 11 less losses in that same time period.

The job of the QB is not to look pretty and have flawless throwing motion with beautifully spun tight spirals...the job is to lead the offense to scoring points and help the team win. Vince Young does that better than 99% of all college QB's. The media crap about his throwing is so incredibly overblown it's ridiculous...he's completing 59% of his passes and his team has a chance to win as long as he's under center; what's the problem again? Ryan Leaf looked real good throwing the ball, so did Todd Marinovich...so what?

I'm not knocking Reggie by any means. I love watching him play and I think he's an excellent player...he always has been. However...in the discussion of who's better, Vince or Reggie, if you really step back and look at what Vince has done and what Reggie has done, the answer is quite obvious. I would take Vince any day, any time, under any situation.

[LeanderLions3033]

Call me a homer if you want, but they way Vince Young takes over in the games that he plays in, hes on a different level. Reggie throws a better ball yes. Vince has a crappy throwing motion, yes. Vince also has a better completion percentage. Im not gonna lie to myself though, i'm sure aggy fans dont hold their breath when Reggie throws like UT fans do with Vince, but the numbers dont lie. The way he passed in the game against OK state is what you gotta look at. And about Reggie beating OU....... Not only is it all that matters for orangebloods is for us to beat OU, but its also all that matters to OU, for them to beat us. If you had the same teams in different uniforms, Reggie doesnt beat OU because they are more hyped up to play us then they are to play aTm. They lost the year Reggie was a freshmen, so they were hyped up to play aTm the next year, and does anybody remember the score of that game, better yet the running clock in that game, or the kneeing it on 1st 2nd and 3rd down inside their own 20 yardline. I sure as hell remember that.

[pack0808]

Pack, Actually, Vince was the #1 recruit in the nation. He was also given the award for "Strongest Arm" at the Elite 11 camp that year.

No doubt Reggie played in a tougher district...granted. He also had a better team around him. Vince, on the other hand, carried that Madison team for 3 years.

Aggies (no, not you pack) love to bring up the fact that Reggie beat OU, yet they say that the reason Reggie has a losing record as a starter is because his team is so much worse...oh and you can't look at head to head matchups between Vince and Reggie either. Seems a bit contradictory.

Reggie does not have better numbers...he's just played longer and accumulated more numbers. Vince has 1200 less total yards, 3 more TD's, a better completion percentage, and more rushing yards in one full season less than Reggie and he has 6 more wins and 11 less losses in that same time period.

The job of the QB is not to look pretty and have flawless throwing motion with beautifully spun tight spirals...the job is to lead the offense to scoring points and help the team win. Vince Young does that better than 99% of all college QB's. The media crap about his throwing is so incredibly overblown it's ridiculous...he's completing 59% of his passes and his team has a chance to win as long as he's under center; what's the problem again? Ryan Leaf looked real good throwing the ball, so did Todd Marinovich...so what?

I'm not knocking Reggie by any means. I love watching him play and I think he's an excellent player...he always has been. However...in the discussion of who's better, Vince or Reggie, if you really step back and look at what Vince has done and what Reggie has done, the answer is quite obvious. I would take Vince any day, any time, under any situation.


i would not expect less from a houston homer ktchamp ;) i am an east texan homer so i cannot talk. lol just looking back at last year's stats mcneal obviously had the better stats. way more yards more td's and less interceptions and they had almost identical completion pct numbers. i could have sworn mcneal was the #1 recruit according too many magazines and sites. i guess it depended on which one you read?? either way, i like mcneal over young in a big way and we will just have to see what the experts think when the nfl draft comes. then we will see how both does in the nfl. one of us will be wrong and we will soon find out. oh on the ou games. you mentioned the one blow out in 3 years. at least it was only one blowout instead of 3. a&m one won and almost won the other one. again, i am a texas fan over an aggie fan by far but all these panthers going to gaggyville is making me cheer for them. i never thought that would happen. you know i am iowa all the way and drew tate might have better numbers then all of them next year. he is that good and iowa is that loaded. my dad and i are going try to go up and watch them play michigan this year hopefully. should be a blast. i hope lufkin does not play a big game that friday though because i will miss it. i will have to call my friends every 2 seconds demanding an update. lol

[nsmustang]

pack-For what it's worth, Don't forget VY was Parade Magazine's Player of the Year in his senior year. Don't recall seeing Reggies name on the list. Not slamming McNeal at all. I think he is a great athlete but A&M is not there yet and he will not see greatness unless the 21 other Aggies help him out. He has the tools.

[wide-e-wide]

Yeah there is no shortage of "tools" in collie station that's for sure.

[garlandowl08]

I'm a diehard Aggie fan, and I'll be the first to admit if I'm wrong about this (from the sounds of it I probably am) but does anyone know or know how to find the stats for Reggie only up to his third year (since reggeie has an extra year)? I'm genuinely curious, but this can set some stuff straight

[mtbray]

I actually really associated with him back in 2001-2002-2003. Lets just say his personal business is his own personal business.

heh, so is everybodys. I'm taking this to pm's.

[Favpack]

pack-For what it's worth, Don't forget VY was Parade Magazine's Player of the Year in his senior year. Don't recall seeing Reggies name on the list. Not slamming McNeal at all. I think he is a great athlete but A&M is not there yet and he will not see greatness unless the 21 other Aggies help him out. He has the tools.

Reggie was indeed on the list. He was listed on offense as an all-around player. VY's numbers were deserving to be POY. Yes I'm a homer and Reggie fan - but I simply would have taken Reggie over Vince back then. Reggie was the best on-field leader I've ever seen. Coach O put Reggie in as deep safety beginning in the playoffs when the game was on the line and it was obvious other teams needed to pass. Having not played defense since the 8th grade, Reggie picked off three passes and ran two back for TD's in the three games he was used as such.

Prior to the Rose Bowl I would have taken Reggie in a heartbeat over Vince at the college level. I'll be the first to admit that Rose Bowl game was almost unreal what Vince did. You'd be a fool not to pick Vince IF he can maintain that level of play and consistency.

The question begs to be asked though - why has he never done that against OU or for that matter against anyone in a bowl game before? I dunno - but I for one hope Vince picks up where he left off - I want to see him or Reggie win the Heisman. I'd be more than happy see them go 1 and 2 in voting.

[rattlerbacker]

does anyone know or know how to find the stats for Reggie only up to his third year (since reggeie has an extra year)? I'm genuinely curious, but this can set some stuff straight

OK, you asked for it but I don't think you are going to like it! I got these stats from the aggie football website. I wanted to follow the original format so just substitute "first two years" for Reggie's numbers. Oh, and I deleted sacks because I didn't care to spend the time looking for them.

Career passing

Reggie - 51.5% of passes completed for 2238 yards, 14 TDs and 10 INTs
Vince - 59% of passes completed for 3004 yards, 18 TDs and 18 INTs

Career rushing

Reggie - gained 3.0 yards per carry while rushing for 644 yards and 9 TDs...

Vince - gained 7 yards per carry while rushing for 2077 yards and 25 TDs...

Career total offense

Reggie - has accounted for 2882 yards of total offense (6.0 yards per play) and 23 TDs
Vince - has accounted for 5081 yards of total offense (7.3 yards per play) and 43 TDs

There ya go, numbers for each in their first two years. Notice how the TD to Int. ratio difference shrank? Give Vince a year with better, more experienced receivers and that gap will close again.

[ktchamp97]

Favpack, the answer to your question lies in the coaching at Texas...namely the offensive coordinator. It's the coach's job to put players in position to be successful and I think they failed many times in that regard. Those rocket scientists finally figured out that Vince was uncomfortable and confined in the offense in which they were trying to fit him. They did not know how to use him properly. To a point they still don't. Many times last year, it was painful to watch what they were doing with Vince and how they were so poorly mismanaging his strengths. About midway through last season, after the Missouri game, they went to Vince and asked for his input in the offense and what they could try to do so that he would be more effective.

Even still, there were only a few games that they did a good job with Vince in the passing game. He struggles with certain routes, yet they still force him to make those throws over and over while not taking advantage of the fact that he's most effective when working downfield. Vince really can throw the dang ball, but they have yet to fully let him do his thing.

The one game they really opened it up was when they had absolutely no choice. That was against Ok. State when we got down 35-7. Vince ran the two-minute drill to perfection and ended it with a TD pass. In the second half, it was more of the same. Vince finished that game 18-21 for 278 yards (He also rushed for 123) and we won 56-35. Besides the completion percentage, what was significant about that game is that they were calling routes down the field, which is evidenced by his 13.2 yards per attempt.

Vince has achieved his stats and success despite the coaching staff's inability to open up the offense and let Vince be Vince. It will be really scary if they ever actually figure it out. I'll give them a bit of a break because a talent like Vince doesn't come around very often, so naturally it may be difficult to know what to do with him. However, I've always felt they were way too cautious with him (especially in the bigger games) and they're not even close to using his full potential.

[jtk1519]

Ktchamp pretty much said it. Vince does have better numbers. When you get into projections VY will blow Reggie's stats out of the water (assuming VY stays through his senior year). Vince will finish with more passing yards, maybe close to triple Reggie's rushing yards. He will finish with more TDs and wins. The only stat that Reggie might have over Vince is fewer INTs thrown.

I noticed a comment about VY's throwing motion and his little 15 yard out passes. You know an argument has gone desperate when the best one can offer is the tired and lame "throwing motion" argument. The facts are that Vince does throw a lot of screens, 15 yards outs and such, but that is simply because that is about all he can do with the talent around him. Texas didnt really have that deep threat that can stretch the field. That is what we are hoping Jordan Shipley and Quan Cosby will bring and if VY does get that dependable deep threat, you will see him putting up passing numbers very much like what he did in high school. For those that didnt, take a look at the videos I posted of Vince in high school. It quickly becomes obvious that VY has an incredibly strong arm. In fact, the strength of hiss passing game is the deep ball. His accuracy increases the deeper the pass is. The irony is that these short passes are not one of Vince's strengths. He probably struggles with those more than any other pass. Proof positive, once again, that Texas hasnt had the right kind of guys around him.

One final thing... I hear Vince described a lot as a "running QB" when in fact that is an inaccurate description. Vince throws the ball more than he runs. No, he doesnt throw a lot, but still more than he runs. That is where it becomes critical to look at that "average yards per play" stat I posted. Eric Crouch was a running QB. Vince Young is a balanced QB and I think that is what makes him so dangerous. Fans can say what they want about his passing abilities, but the coaches in the Big XII know that you have to respect Vince's arm because it can kill you.

[Smackie]

Both QB's are outstanding...and to be honest it is really silly to compare them. It is silly but fair. I think only time will tell who truly is the best, when the NFL decides. Right now if they would be going to the NFL I think Reggie will get the nod by most NFL scouts. VY really needs to work on his passing. He threw the ball nicely in the games I saw him in high school. I look at him now and I just cant understand what is up. Coaching maybe...but Reggie is a more likely better pick for the NFL right now.

[timeout!]

u guys need to remember that reggie only played like 2 or 3 games the year his red shirt was lifted. so the xtra year u guys keep talking about is not as significant as u may think in terms of reggie accumalating more numbers. in my honest oppinion, reggie is clearly the better qb..if my memory serves me correctly i believe at some point last year he had the most games by any qb in the nation with no int's...considering the attempts he had per game. he also lead the nation in total yardage per game. the only thing young has over reggie is size and fingers with no rings.

[jtk1519]

he also lead the nation in total yardage per game.

Hmmm. Reggie averaged about 370 yards of offense per game. Freakin' Sonny Cumbie had almost 400 yards a game and he was one of the weaker QBs in the conference. Another stat that doesnt really hold up. The name of the game is winning and even at his best, Reggie has no hope of catching Vince.

Next futile argument.

[rattlerbacker]

u guys need to remember that reggie only played like 2 or 3 games the year his red shirt was lifted. so the xtra year u guys keep talking about is not as significant as u may think in terms of reggie accumalating more numbers.

Not quite correct. The aggie football website lists him playing in 8 games that year. Besides, thats the season he had the BIG GAME, how could it NOT be significant? :D

[jtk1519]

Not quite correct. The aggie football website lists him playing in 8 games that year. Besides, thats the season he had the BIG GAME, how could it NOT be significant? :D

Vince Young also started in just 7 games his RS Fr. year and didnt get that first start until the 6th game of the season. He played in others, but in terms of playing time... Vince is about one year behind Reggie.

[jtk1519]

BTW, just to go along with what I was saying about Vince and the deep ball, check out these clips...

http://hornfans.com/recruiting/rpongett/clips/Young1.mpg
http://hornfans.com/recruiting/rpongett/clips/Young2.mpg

Now, I would love to meet the person that can watch those clips and still tell me that Vince cant throw. His deep passes come out quick with a lot of zip and they are very accurate.

I think a lot of blame falls on the shoulders of Greg Davis, but the lack of a playmaking speedster at WR hurt last year. I think with a go to guy like Roy Williams in that receiving core last year, you would have seen a much different Vince. Ramonce Taylor is really starting to emerge as a guy who can do that and I think Shipley will be a deep threat this year. Facts are that most of UT's WRs last year were freshmen. They dropped a lot of balls and ran some poor routes at times. Vince obviously lost a lot of trust in his receivers and started targeting his sure handed TEs more. From what I understand, Vince was really connecting with his WRs in the Spring and hopefully that will carry over into the season.

[mtbray]

Next futile argument.

Hmmmm.... Vince is stinky!!!

[nsmustang]

Reggie was indeed on the list. He was listed on offense as an all-around player. VY's numbers were deserving to be POY. Yes I'm a homer and Reggie fan - but I simply would have taken Reggie over Vince back then. Reggie was the best on-field leader I've ever seen. Coach O put Reggie in as deep safety beginning in the playoffs when the game was on the line and it was obvious other teams needed to pass. Having not played defense since the 8th grade, Reggie picked off three passes and ran two back for TD's in the three games he was used as such.

Prior to the Rose Bowl I would have taken Reggie in a heartbeat over Vince at the college level. I'll be the first to admit that Rose Bowl game was almost unreal what Vince did. You'd be a fool not to pick Vince IF he can maintain that level of play and consistency.

The question begs to be asked though - why has he never done that against OU or for that matter against anyone in a bowl game before? I dunno - but I for one hope Vince picks up where he left off - I want to see him or Reggie win the Heisman. I'd be more than happy see them go 1 and 2 in voting.

Thanks Favpack. You have to remember that year Madison was a one man team whereas Lufkin had 22 players. VY had help at running back that year but there was no defense. I'd be willing to say that if VY was Lufkin's QB that year they would have won the title with him also. What if Reggie goes to UT and VY goes to A&M? Same results? What everyone on this thread is saying is it's whoever you happened to see while they were in high school is who you are biased for. I think both are gifted and are proving themselves. As for VY vs OU, I think you will see a different, more mature VY aagaist OU this year and I look for the Horns to take 'em to the woodshed providing their D can be effective. Let the show start. I'm ready-

[pack0808]

Ktchamp pretty much said it. Vince does have better numbers. When you get into projections VY will blow Reggie's stats out of the water (assuming VY stays through his senior year). Vince will finish with more passing yards, maybe close to triple Reggie's rushing yards. He will finish with more TDs and wins. The only stat that Reggie might have over Vince is fewer INTs thrown.

I noticed a comment about VY's throwing motion and his little 15 yard out passes. You know an argument has gone desperate when the best one can offer is the tired and lame "throwing motion" argument. The facts are that Vince does throw a lot of screens, 15 yards outs and such, but that is simply because that is about all he can do with the talent around him. Texas didnt really have that deep threat that can stretch the field. That is what we are hoping Jordan Shipley and Quan Cosby will bring and if VY does get that dependable deep threat, you will see him putting up passing numbers very much like what he did in high school. For those that didnt, take a look at the videos I posted of Vince in high school. It quickly becomes obvious that VY has an incredibly strong arm. In fact, the strength of hiss passing game is the deep ball. His accuracy increases the deeper the pass is. The irony is that these short passes are not one of Vince's strengths. He probably struggles with those more than any other pass. Proof positive, once again, that Texas hasnt had the right kind of guys around him.

One final thing... I hear Vince described a lot as a "running QB" when in fact that is an inaccurate description. Vince throws the ball more than he runs. No, he doesnt throw a lot, but still more than he runs. That is where it becomes critical to look at that "average yards per play" stat I posted. Eric Crouch was a running QB. Vince Young is a balanced QB and I think that is what makes him so dangerous. Fans can say what they want about his passing abilities, but the coaches in the Big XII know that you have to respect Vince's arm because it can kill you.


why do you people keep ignoring the most recent stats. mcneal had way more passing yards more td's and less int's and a better overall qb rating by far last year then young. mcneal is finally feeling comfortable after seasons where he was competing for the job and nagging injuries that caused him to miss several games. he is now comfortable and last year's stats prove that. he will be even more comfortable this year and if not injured i would be shocked if his numbers are not better then young's again. i am done with this argument once again. i would pick reggie any day of the week over young and yall are not going to change my mind period!! if i am wrong i will admit i am wrong but we will have to wait and find out in the upcoming years. both are great athletes with ulimited potential but i am a reggie guy like some of you are vince guys. one last point to jtk. it is not just us that are questioning young's arm so is about every nfl scout. just listen to the shows on the radio and tv. they are really down on him in the throwing department and most do not see a future nfl qb in young. most are saying he will play wr or something like that. these guys tend to know what to look for because that is what they do for a living.

[jtk1519]

why do you people keep ignoring the most recent stats. mcneal had way more passing yards more td's and less int's and a better overall qb rating by far last year then young.

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that Vince is responsible for more TOTAL offense, more TDs and more wins. We have already discussed the fact that Vince and Reggie do things differently. Why cant Reggie produce like Vince?

[Smackie]

Right now jtk Reggie is a more complete QB than VY. Not even the most orange glasses wearing fan can dispute that. You can try which obviously you are, but you will still be wrong. Again I will go with my NFL argument, and bet money Reggie would be the pick by most scouts.

[nsmustang]

Right now jtk Reggie is a more complete QB than VY. Not even the most orange glasses wearing fan can dispute that. You can try which obviously you are, but you will still be wrong. Again I will go with my NFL argument, and bet money Reggie would be the pick by most scouts.

Hard to convince UT people Reggie is better. No matter what the stats, VY was in the Rose bowl and came out with a win. Reggie has not done it yet. Bradshaw is not considered by many to have been a great QB but he has 4 rings more than Marino has and many would say Marino is the better QB.

[wide-e-wide]

I'm sure Bradshaw would even say Marino was the better QB.

[TheDuke]

Vince Young is a better QB PERIOD!! Maybe the stats don't show it or in High School, but right now he is the better QB! Why do Aggie lovers say "Well he plays on a weaker team" Guess what, he should have gone to UT then! :D ;) :D

[pack0808]

you are still not going to change my mind. we will see when the nfl draft comes and who they think is better.

[nsmustang]

I'm sure Bradshaw would even say Marino was the better QB.

You crack me up! He probably would say Peyton Manning is better. I bet Bradshaw is not worried too much about his stats compared to Marinos'.

[nsmustang]

Vince Young is a better QB PERIOD!! Maybe the stats don't show it or in High School, but right now he is the better QB! Why do Aggie lovers say "Well he plays on a weaker team" Guess what, he should have gone to UT then! :D ;) :D

Can't imagine UT weaker than A&M. Look who has won the every time they meet......

[jtk1519]

Right now jtk Reggie is a more complete QB than VY. Not even the most orange glasses wearing fan can dispute that. You can try which obviously you are, but you will still be wrong. Again I will go with my NFL argument, and bet money Reggie would be the pick by most scouts.

Of course Reggie is the most complete QB... right now. I have never disputed that and I wont. What I have said is that, despite being a "less complete" QB, VY is STILL putting up better total offensive numbers than Reggie and he is still doing the QBs absolute #1 job... leading his team to wins. Not even the most maroon glasses wearing fan will dispute that Vince's upside is leaps and bounds greater than Reggie's and that is what makes Vince better.

[Smackie]

When it is all said and done...Reggie will be on an NFL roster playing QB. Vince Young will be just like Matt Jones...split out wide catching passes. All the stats he pile up at UT will not stop that from becoming true.

[ktchamp97]

Vince has always been a QB and will always be a QB.

If Jay Fiedler can be an NFL QB, there's no way Vince can't. He will get his shot and I happen to believe he will succeed.

[garlandowl08]

Wow...Im gone what, 1 maybe 2 days and boom this thing freakin exploded...it took me a while to get caught up...and its summer for me. Do any of yall have jobs? just kidding

Okay, I know this seems futile, seeing as its already overused (aren't most of the arguments anyway), but when Vince has a solid wall for an O-Line to run around, it would make sense to me that it's considerably easier to rack up yards on teh ground. Like in the thread from which this one stemmed, Reggie does run a 4.3 in theory. Do you honestly think he doesn't want an oppurtunity and doesn't try for oppurtunities to use it? It almost seems unfair to use stats...the only ture way s to have both reggien and vy to run with the same o-line whether equally crappy or equally good...its the only truly fair way. I can see jtk or whoever countering that with "but the skill of the QB should be able to overcome the adversity of the crappy O-line" but if vince was an aggie and reggie a sip, then I turly believe many of our positions would be the opposite and Reggie would be "more productive"

[jtk1519]

I'll buy the O-line argument. aggy's O-line sucks... there's no nice way of saying it. Reggie also doesnt have a half way decent RB to give the ball too. Reggie is in fact a star on a team full of mediocre talent. My question though is simple... If Reggie does in fact run a 4.3, why cant he out run a defensive line that probably doesnt run better than a 4.8?

[TheDuke]

Because he doesn't run a 4.3!:rolleyes:

[garlandowl08]

well, according to all well documented sources, he does indeed run a 4.3 and thats a good question (why cant he outrun...)

[jtk1519]

Derrick Johnson alone had Reggie in the fetal position by the third quarter and Johnson just ran a 4.54 for the NFL combines. Seems like Reggie would be able to zip right by him, but it wasnt just DJ. That whole D-line had a piece of Reggie and the fastest guys there are Brian Robinson and Tim Crowder (the two DEs) who both run in the 4.7 area. Somethings not adding up here.

[garlandowl08]

don't ask me...

[wide-e-wide]

Maybe it was the un-lift-able weight of the incredible sucky-ness that is
maroon and white aggy football that prevented Reggie from being
elusive?

[TheDuke]

That is probably the reason we have ALL been waiting for!:D

[wide-e-wide]

Hey makes sense to me...
the dude played in Lufkin and you couldn't
find him with a map and 5 flashlights...
He goes to aggy and suddenly....He's David Carr
running for his life and can't out-run Re-run from What's Happening?
It's gotta be the jersey man...it's heavy as hell...

[TheDuke]

This question needs to be asked when they are both in the NFL with there own teams for a couple years. Then you can ask who is better.

[wide-e-wide]

Hey Duke...Chrissy Sims is still in the league...
something tells me if his name was Chris Jones or Smith...
he would be throwing to receivers that bounced off of walls though...
Like playing for the Arizona Rattlers or something...
Not that there is anything wrong with that....
well unless your trying to pay for a mansion...then it's quite
incumbersome...

[TheDuke]

Ya well when you daddy has played that is what happens. He will never be any good though, at least he isn't right now anyway.

[jtk1519]

I think some aggy see Reggie as the second coming of Mike Vick, but I think he is more realisticly the second coming of Jake Plummer. I dont think Reggie will ever rush for more that a couple hundred yards a season in the NFL. Bottom line is that if Reggie cant get away from the Tim Crowders and DJs of college football... How is he going to do against the likes of Ray Lewis and Dwight Freeney? Now, that means Reggie is going to be pretty much a pocket passer... a 6'1 195 pocket passer. I wish him nothing but the best once his aggy days are done, but I have my doubts.

[wide-e-wide]

Jake the Snake baby!!!
That made me spit Miller Lite and HEB peanuts
all over my UNLV (circa 1991) t-shirt...
you got me dog.

[pack0808]

Because he doesn't run a 4.3!:rolleyes:


god duke and jtk you really do not pay attention sometimes?? i mean how many more documented sources do i have to print for you to believe it. i mean give me a break!!! i am guessing you do not read them. do i need to print the articles again?? he was only one of the fastest sprinters in the nation his senior year in track. that was beyond a silly statement jtk. so now derrik johnson can out run him?? :rolleyes: if you do not know how that happens in football games i have to question your knowledge of football. let me break this down for you, when you qb you are looking down field and 6-8 guys are coming at you with head starts so when the qb decides to run they are at a disadvantage in a big way a lot of the times. so when you have a 4.6 guy getting a head start off a 4.3 guy they can catch him before he gets going full speed. not to mention they qb's are having to bob and weave to avoid tackles and it is rare qb's are ever going at a dead sprint. if you get them in the open field when reggie is at a dead sprint nobody is going to catch them unless you and duke are now the experts instead of the nfl and college scouts who all say he can run a legit 4.3 flat. :rolleyes: i mean he was just clocked a few months ago by nfl scouts and he had a 4.31 avg on his 40 with his fastest being a 4.3 flat. the guy is the fastest player i have ever seen live.

[wide-e-wide]

I will agree with you Pack0808...he was the fastest I have seen live...
until I went to Floyd Casey and DKR Memorial....Then I said ....
"Oh my goodness" This Young kid is something special.
I really should be a Lufkin homer and say Reggie is better...or even
faster...but you and I both know we have seen faster...
D'Undre' Garcia?...that is the fastest cat to ever come out of Lufkin.

[farmerfan]

Pack
Did you ever see Quan Cosby play, if not, that guy is bar none the quickest guy I have ever seen play football. Not many people are mentioning him yet, but he could become a big time play maker for Texas this year, and could be what they need to propel that offense, Cosby has the ability to turn Davis's aggresive 5 yard outs into 90+ yard TD's unlike anyone UT has ever had.

As far as this QB debate goes, im having to much fun reading everyone's thoughts to weigh in on my own.

[wide-e-wide]

I was sitting at my desk at work listening...
All the local press and the ESPN station here in
Waco....JUST KNEW he was gonna come to Baylor...
after 12 the news came...

He signed with Texas....hahahhahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahahhahaha hahahahahaha,,,,,,,,hahahahahahahahahahahaha,,,,OM G...they were pissed.

Local boy...said....Naaaaaaahhhh...I want to win a few games in my college career...hahhahahaha

[pack0808]

make sure that some of you read the part about the 4.3 and the track this time ok. hey wide i doubt deandre was faster then reggie i really do. he was very fast but i doubt he could run a 4.3 flat. he was not a track super star like reggie was either. and no i have not seen that guy farmer. i am sure there are some faster guys but i have not seen them live. this is from the virginia tech defense that usually has the fastest or one of the fastest defense's in the nation.



Football: Sophomore McNeal adds some zip to Aggies' offense

Thursday, September 25, 2003

By Paul Zeise, Post-Gazette Sports Writer

Virginia Tech football coach Frank Beamer thought he had a lot of fast guys on his defense until he watched Texas A&M sophomore quarterback Reggie McNeal run circles around them Thursday night when the Hokies beat the Aggies, 35-19, in Blacksburg, Va



"Wow," was all Beamer could muster when asked about the kind of athlete McNeal is and some of the plays he made against the Hokies.

Pitt coach Walt Harris, whose Panthers (2-1) will try to stop McNeal Saturday when they invade Kyle Field for a nationally televised matchup with the Aggies (2-1), came away with a similar impression after watching McNeal befuddle Virginia Tech.

"[McNeal] is the fastest guy on the team," Harris said. "No question. We have never played against anyone as fast as he is. You have to put a hook on him. The thing that is scary about television is he didn't look that fast on television, but he is running around Virginia Tech's defense, and we all know how fast and ballyhooed Virginia Tech's defense is. And he's running around them."

Despite making only five starts, McNeal already is being compared to quarterbacks such as Michael Vick of the Atlanta Falcons and Donavon McNabb of the Philadelphia Eagles.

He is 6 feet 2, 195 pounds and runs the 100-yard dash in the 10-second range and the 40 in 4.3 seconds. And those times are legitimate, according to one man instrumental in recruiting McNeal for Texas A&M.

"When I say 4.3, I mean 4.3," said Pitt running backs coach Dino Babers, who was the Aggies' offensive coordinator the previous two seasons. "I'd be very surprised if anyone on either football team could line up and run with him. He's that fast.

"He is very confident and very cool under pressure, so it doesn't surprise me that he has been successful, and I believe he'll have a great career."

McNeal doesn't mind the comparisons to guys like Vick because "I have a lot of confidence in my abilities. But it makes you feel good because guys like him are NFL starters and have accomplished a lot.

"I'm just a sophomore, so I've accomplished nothing, but I have something to aim for."

McNeal has accounted for 481 yards in the Aggies' first three games despite sharing time with redshirt junior Dustin Long, whom he beat out for the job. He has completed 30 of 52 passes for 360 yards and two touchdowns and rushed for 121.

He came to Texas A&M as one of the most highly recruited players in the country after a stellar career at Lufkin High School in Texas. As a senior, he led Lufkin to the Class 5A, Division II state title, accounting for 382 total yards in the title game. In that game, he led a rally from a 21-3 deficit even though he had a sprained ankle.

Some colleges recruited him for track because he was one of the fastest sprinters in Texas and reached the state final in the 100 meters three consecutive years. He never trained for track, though, because he also was an outstanding baseball player.

[pack0808]

i just thought i would print this part again for some of you.

Some colleges recruited him for track because he was one of the fastest sprinters in Texas and reached the state final in the 100 meters three consecutive years.

[wide-e-wide]

I don't know dog...
D' was pretty quick...
He was one of the only guys to
steal second base and the catcher
just threw it back to the pitcher...
"like....what can I do....he already circled second
and is headin' to third..."
He did that quite a bit...

He Pack0808...PM me man...I gotta tell you some
interesting stuff man...you'll like it.

[jtk1519]

god duke and jtk you really do not pay attention sometimes?? i mean how many more documented sources do i have to print for you to believe it. i mean give me a break!!! i am guessing you do not read them. do i need to print the articles again?? he was only one of the fastest sprinters in the nation his senior year in track. that was beyond a silly statement jtk. so now derrik johnson can out run him?? :rolleyes: if you do not know how that happens in football games i have to question your knowledge of football. let me break this down for you, when you qb you are looking down field and 6-8 guys are coming at you with head starts so when the qb decides to run they are at a disadvantage in a big way a lot of the times. so when you have a 4.6 guy getting a head start off a 4.3 guy they can catch him before he gets going full speed. not to mention they qb's are having to bob and weave to avoid tackles and it is rare qb's are ever going at a dead sprint. if you get them in the open field when reggie is at a dead sprint nobody is going to catch them unless you and duke are now the experts instead of the nfl and college scouts who all say he can run a legit 4.3 flat. :rolleyes: i mean he was just clocked a few months ago by nfl scouts and he had a 4.31 avg on his 40 with his fastest being a 4.3 flat. the guy is the fastest player i have ever seen live.


I've read all your propeganda and it still doesnt add up. I never said Johnson was faster... I said just the opposite. I have never doubted that Reggie is fast... even 4.3 fast. I just want to know why a QB that can run a legit 4.3 can't manage better than a 3.8 yard per carry average while a 4.4 guy like Vince Young can average 7 a carry. Hell, even Alex Smith who runs a 4.75 averaged over 4.5 yards a carry for Utah, but I guess VY and Smith never had to bob and weave to avoid tackles. The D-lines just envelope little Reggie, but they part like the Red Sea for other guys. :rolleyes: Poooooor aggy.

[pack0808]

propeganda?????? these are legit stories from legit sources that i had nothing to do with. a smaller run average?? maybe because he looks to pass before running unlike young and maybe it is because he is in the shotgun passing about 100 more times a year then young instead of selling a play fakes to cedric benson and taking off the other way for 20-40 yard runs. that does wonders for your run average. again, we will see!! just let it go and i will. i tried but yall were questioning his speed which is absolutely ludacris with a capital L. :rolleyes:

[wide-e-wide]

Capital L...no pun intended...
I would never....ever....never...ever....
question Reggie's speed...
But he is aggy...and I must expose him.
If he wore the burnt orange....I would give him some slack...
but dude does tend to get sacked a lot.....a lot....gimme that much.

[pack0808]

yeah he gets sacked a lot but he you have to admit he passes a lot and he usually has a mediocre line and defense's do not respect the aggy running game lately and therefore the dlines are pinning their ears back rushing the qb. if you pass almost 100 times fewer times in a season and if you have a good o line and a great rb aka c benson, that defense's respect in a big way it does absolute wonders on the sack totals. at least give me that.

[pack0808]

yeah he does get sacked a lot but you have to admit he passes a lot and he usually has a mediocre line and defense's do not respect the aggy running game lately and therefore the dlines are pinning their ears back rushing the qb. if you pass almost 100 times fewer times in a season and if you have a good o line and a great rb aka c benson, that defense's respect in a big way it does absolute wonders on the sack totals. at least give me that.

[jtk1519]

propeganda?????? these are legit stories from legit sources that i had nothing to do with. a smaller run average?? maybe because he looks to pass before running unlike young and maybe it is because he is in the shotgun passing about 100 more times a year then young instead of selling a play fakes to cedric benson and taking off the other way for 20-40 yard runs. that does wonders for your run average. again, we will see!! just let it go and i will. i tried but yall were questioning his speed which is absolutely ludacris with a capital L. :rolleyes:

I never questioned his speed... not once. I just had a couple of questions that have yet to be answered. Shotgun?!?! Do you watch football at all? VY works out of the shotgun about often as Reggie does. Plus, that was a piss poor excuse to begin with because it is much easier for the QB to run out of the shotgun rather than from under center. Finally, dont give me this "Vince just runs the ball more" garbage. Vince carried the ball 167 times last year... Reggie had 151 carries. What is really amazing is that Reggie threw the ball about 100 more times than Vince but Vince STILL has the higher yard per play average.

You want another very interesting stat... If Vince had thrown the ball as much as many times as Reggie he would have thrown for about the same number of yards as Reggie, but Vince would have thrown more TDs, but wait a second... I thought Vince cant throw and Reggie was clearly the better passer:rolleyes: . Another feeble aggy excuse bites the dust.

[wide-e-wide]

Defenses didn't respect aggy's running game...true...
that was in the pre-train days...
let Javorskie start runnin' over folks like Christian Okoye
and maybe they will...I'll give you that....

To sum it up Reggie is a helluva QB...he really is...
he's a helluva athlete period...
and I wish nothing but the best for him.
I really do.
But when he plays UT I hope he is 4 for 30 with 9 sacks....
the hometown love only gets you so much.

[pack0808]

I never questioned his speed... not once. I just had a couple of questions that have yet to be answered. Shotgun?!?! Do you watch football at all? VY works out of the shotgun about often as Reggie does. Plus, that was a piss poor excuse to begin with because it is much easier for the QB to run out of the shotgun rather than from under center. Finally, dont give me this "Vince just runs the ball more" garbage. Vince carried the ball 167 times last year... Reggie had 151 carries. What is really amazing is that Reggie threw the ball about 100 more times than Vince but Vince STILL has the higher yard per play average.

You want another very interesting stat... If Vince had thrown the ball as much as many times as Reggie he would have thrown for about the same number of yards as Reggie, but Vince would have thrown more TDs, but wait a second... I thought Vince cant throw and Reggie was clearly the better passer:rolleyes: . Another feeble aggy excuse bites the dust.



now you are getting personal. the question about if i even watch football?? that is just amazing?? you should know better?? let me bust another amazing stat at you mr know it all. reggie still had 7 less interceptions throwing the ball 100 more times then young. if vince threw the ball 100 more times he might lead the nation in picks. do you even watch football?? lmao and once again moron, i am not an aggy fan i am an iowa fan and texas was always 2nd not a&m. i am a reggie fan and a lufkin panther fan and i only cheer for the aggies in some games now because of all the lufkin players. i have always got along with you and respected your opinions and it is sad this subject got us speaking personal. again for the 500th time, we will see when they both go to the nfl.

[wide-e-wide]

I wouldn't let that punk talk to me like that jtk....
He's big 'ol Iowa corn-fed...hoosier watchin'''
Larry Bird lovin'....chump....
but I'm not in that...that's between 'yall.

[jtk1519]

now you are getting personal. the question about if i even watch football?? that is just amazing?? you should know better?? let me bust another amazing stat at you mr know it all. reggie still had 7 less interceptions throwing the ball 100 more times then young. if vince threw the ball 100 more times he might lead the nation in picks. do you even watch football?? lmao and once again moron, i am not an aggy fan i am an iowa fan and texas was always 2nd not a&m. i am a reggie fan and a lufkin panther fan and i only cheer for the aggies in some games now because of all the lufkin players. i have always got along with you and respected your opinions and it is sad this subject got us speaking personal. again for the 500th time, we will see when they both go to the nfl.

I'm sorry you felt the need to make this personal by calling me a moron. Hopefully you can regroup and try and debate with out resorting to childish name calling.

As far as your INT comment... if VY had thrown the ball as many times as Reggie, he would have thrown more INTs... sure, but he wouldnt even place in the top 10 in the nation, but he would rank #1 in the nation in total offensive production and total TDs scored. Oh, and he would STILL have more WINS than Reggie.

Again, best of luck in your endeavor to grow up. Hopefully we can continue this debate when you mature.

[wide-e-wide]

See...I gave you a little bit of rope..
and I'll be damned you hung your fool self...
Watch yourself jtk...your messin' with a hall of famer...with
friends...

hook 'em...we can agree on that can't we?

[pack0808]

I'm sorry you felt the need to make this personal by calling me a moron. Hopefully you can regroup and try and debate with out resorting to childish name calling.

As far as your INT comment... if VY had thrown the ball as many times as Reggie, he would have thrown more INTs... sure, but he wouldnt even place in the top 10 in the nation, but he would rank #1 in the nation in total offensive production and total TDs scored. Oh, and he would STILL have more WINS than Reggie.

Again, best of luck in your endeavor to grow up. Hopefully we can continue this debate when you mature.

lmao wide shaaddup and lol at cornfed. i have been living in texas since i can remember even though i am an iowa fan. i came here at 4.

when somebody questions me about if i watch football and then they call me an aggy i take it personal. you basically were calling me a moron so i said it in a more direct way. reggie had a much better overall qb rating then young last year did you miss that one?? that is what many of the experts go by on who is better. if young would have thrown the ball 100 more times last year they would have had to rename him vince " the pick" young. your comment was hillarious by the way when you said that if young would have thrown the ball 100 more times then reggie he would have had more interceptions. ya think?? young had 7 more picks throwing almost 100 less then reggie. lmao great analysis. and best of luck in your endeavor to gain a brain cell. hopefully we can continue this debate when you get a few. lmao

[wide-e-wide]

Your still from Iowa...so shut up

I would throw in a Chuck Long reference...
but the last time I did that......you totally smashed me.


so.....Lohaus....shut up...

[pack0808]

by the way mcneal was 26th in overall qb rating while vince was 52nd in the nation. so in other words, mcneal was 26 spots ahead of young in overall qb rating which is supposed to give the biggest overall picture on who had the better numbers. another missed stat by jtk. :eek:

[wide-e-wide]

But Reggie finished, like 5,000,000th
behind Vince in BCS victories....sorrry dog
I had to say that ......

[pack0808]

Your still from Iowa...so shut up

i was actually born in missouri and then i lived in pennsylvania. the only time i lived in iowa was when i went to college for 4 semesters not including the summer.. missouri 2 years pennsylvania 2 years iowa a little over 1 year and texas 26 years. that has to be a texan!! my parents were born and raised in iowa but i wasn't.

[pack0808]

But Reggie finished, like 5,000,000th
behind Vince in BCS victories....sorrry dog
I had to say that ......


too bad one of those 5,000,000th victories could not have been against ou!! lol maybe he will come within 35 points this year. ;)

[jtk1519]

by the way mcneal was 26th in overall qb rating while vince was 52nd in the nation. so in other words, mcneal was 26 spots ahead of young in overall qb rating which is supposed to give the biggest overall picture on who had the better numbers. another missed stat by jtk. :eek:

And he STILL puts up better numbers and WINS more than Reggie. BTW, if you could read, you would have seen that I said before that Vince is not as good a passer as Reggie. My contention this whole time is that Vince is the better overall athlete at his position, and the overall statistics support my claim..It is quite amazing what reading will do for you.

I do apologize if I called you aggy. I know that is about as big an insult as there is and I didnt mean to offend. Your petty name calling and childish behavior just led me to believe that you had a little aggy in you.

[wide-e-wide]

too bad one of those 5,000,000th victories could not have been against ou!! lol maybe he will come within 35 points this year. ;)
Actually...(bleep)head...we held 'em to 12 points this year...
the -35 losses you credit to Phil Simms' wonderboy...
BTW...I always said he was a scrub...always...always...always...
I know your a Texan man...I'm just talkin' smack...
But if you sincerely want to get on my bad side...
keep talkin' about 35 point losses...
Shut up...Mike Scott was over-rated....scuff the ball
check his record against Doctor K....
I had to reach into the archives for that one T.

[pack0808]

i called you a moron one time after you threw some insults at me so get it right moron. lol and no once again!! vince did not have bigger numbers then reggie in the stat department last year unless vince is the first in history to prove the overall qb rating wrong. i mean please, grab a clue i beg you. i have went over the win thing with you over and over. if you are comparing 2 pretty evenly qb's and one is on a great team while the other is on a average to mediocre team it is pretty obvious who is going to have more wins. well it is hard to call texas a great team considering they get absolutely embarrassed by their big rival on a yearly basis now so maybe you do have a point. lol


hey wide i cannot believe you have more orange in you then purple. you grew up and played for lufkin not the longhorns!! now that i think about it i would have a tough time if i had to do the same scenario with iowa. :) ok i forgive you.

[pack0808]

yeah i forgot texas d played very well last year vs ou. how did vince do by the way?? ;)

[wide-e-wide]

You know what ...
If Reggie went to UAB....or Boise ST. or even LSU...
I would have his back...
but the day I saw him in maroon and white.....
All my emotions went out the window...
And hey my nephew (my heart and soul Joey)
is a junior at aggy...I don't care...
he is the enemy...he should have gone to UT....
now he is aggy. and I have hard feelings.

sack his *** every down....I will hold my beer up and
say proudly " He's from Lufkin,Tx."

[pack0808]

you know what jtk i am sorry. i am sorry for calling you a name there is no need in that. i get riled up defending my panthers just like you do your team. there is no need for this to go further. i do not think you are a moron i just disagree with you on a certain sport's debate nothing more. again, i apologize and i hope there is no hard feelings. i just realized it is not worth it. especially this late. ;)

[jtk1519]

i called you a moron one time after you threw some insults at me so get it right moron. lol and no once again!! vince did not have bigger numbers then reggie in the stat department last year unless vince is the first in history to prove the overall qb rating wrong. i mean please, grab a clue i beg you. i have went over the win thing with you over and over. if you are comparing 2 pretty evenly qb's and one is on a great team while the other is on a average to mediocre team it is pretty obvious who is going to have more wins. well it is hard to call texas a great team considering they get absolutely embarrassed by their big rival on a yearly basis now so maybe you do have a point. lol


hey wide i cannot believe you have more orange in you then purple. you grew up and played for lufkin not the longhorns!! now that i think about it i would have a tough time if i had to do the same scenario with iowa. :) ok i forgive you.

I wont be so bold as to claim the QB rating system is wrong. Facts are facts and the fact is that outside of Mike Vick, college football really has seen an athlete with freakish abilities like Vince. The QB rating system is an antiquated system that accounts for just one aspect of a QBs game. It doesnt take into account what a QB does in the rushing dept. That is why you have to look beyond QB ratings. You have to look at TOTAL offensive production, TOTAL points scored, average yards per play, average plays per TD and most important... TOTAL WINS. When you step back and look at those stats examining the whole picture, you see that VY is clearly the better athlete and it really isnt even close.

[wide-e-wide]

should we all hold hands now...
let's sing it....
"TEXAS FIGHT...TEXAS FIGHT...
AND IT'S GOODBYE TO A&M
TEXAS FIGHT ....TEXAS FIGHT
AND WE PUSH FORWARD ONE MORE WIN
TEXAS FIGHT TEXAS FIGHT
'CUZ IT'S TEXAS THAT WE LOVE BEST.....
GIVE 'EM HELL....GIVE 'EM HELL
OU SUCKS
AND IT'S GOODBYE TO ALL THE REST...

I know we can agree on that much.

[pack0808]

again i completely disagree. i think reggie is 3 times the qb then young and they are equal athletes with reggie winning in speed and vince in strength. you are not going to change my mind and i am not going to change your mind. good night now.

[pack0808]

should we all hold hands now...
let's sing it....
"TEXAS FIGHT...TEXAS FIGHT...
AND IT'S GOODBYE TO A&M
TEXAS FIGHT ....TEXAS FIGHT
AND WE PUSH FORWARD ONE MORE WIN
TEXAS FIGHT TEXAS FIGHT
'CUZ IT'S TEXAS THAT WE LOVE BEST.....
GIVE 'EM HELL....GIVE 'EM HELL
OU SUCKS
AND IT'S GOODBYE TO ALL THE REST...

I know we can agree on that much.


i just realized it was 4 and wanted to go to bed. i do not want to hug. lol if it was about lufkin's team or iowa's team i might stay up longer. lol

[wide-e-wide]

You could have the common courtesy to give me
a reach-a-round...
That would be nice...
sorry...my military days came back on me...
LP....LP.....LP.......LP.....LP.....LP....LP.....
you know where OUR heart is right?

[jtk1519]

again i completely disagree. i think reggie is 3 times the qb then young and they are equal athletes with reggie winning in speed and vince in strength. you are not going to change my mind and i am not going to change your mind. good night now.

I never thought I would change your mind, but I did hope to make a few converts out of innocent bystanders.

In the end, hopefully, this argument has exposed people to stats and angles that they have never seen or thought of before and hopefully that has in tern caused people from various points of view to respect both QBs a little more. I have always respected Reggie's athletic ability and it has never been my intention to make Vince look better by bringing down Reggie. It is my opinion that Vince's numbers stand on their own, but I know and respect that not all will agree. I guess this is just one of those times when you have to agree to disagree.

When all is said and done... when the dust has settled and the sun has set, I think there is one thing Longhorns, aggy and even a Hawkeye or two can agree on ... thank God neither Reggie or Vince went to Blow U. ;)

[wide-e-wide]

I will say...
Amen to that my brother...Amen.
See us Baptist...we say Amen twice...
even at 4am...we say it twice.

[TheDuke]

god duke and jtk you really do not pay attention sometimes?? i mean how many more documented sources do i have to print for you to believe it. i mean give me a break!!! i am guessing you do not read them. do i need to print the articles again?? he was only one of the fastest sprinters in the nation his senior year in track. that was beyond a silly statement jtk. so now derrik johnson can out run him?? :rolleyes: if you do not know how that happens in football games i have to question your knowledge of football. let me break this down for you, when you qb you are looking down field and 6-8 guys are coming at you with head starts so when the qb decides to run they are at a disadvantage in a big way a lot of the times. so when you have a 4.6 guy getting a head start off a 4.3 guy they can catch him before he gets going full speed. not to mention they qb's are having to bob and weave to avoid tackles and it is rare qb's are ever going at a dead sprint. if you get them in the open field when reggie is at a dead sprint nobody is going to catch them unless you and duke are now the experts instead of the nfl and college scouts who all say he can run a legit 4.3 flat. :rolleyes: i mean he was just clocked a few months ago by nfl scouts and he had a 4.31 avg on his 40 with his fastest being a 4.3 flat. the guy is the fastest player i have ever seen live.


LOOK!! You can print up that crap up ALL DAY LONG for all I care!! What does a 4.3 40 mean when you get run down from a 250 LB. Linebacker? NOTHING!!! Besides, you really think who ever is running that stop watch at the end of the 40 is honest? He ran a 4.3 his senior year on the track with shorts and a t- shirt maybe but with FULL PADS? PLEEEASE!! I like Reggie and I know you feel like you have to defend him because he is your boy, but the fact is he gets run down from DE & LB's! Young does not!
:rolleyes:

[dada]

Right now the only "Knock" against Young I've seen in here is his throwing motion...Like KT said...he get the job done. Now people are saying that Vince looks good in a better system at UT and has better people around him. Well, the same could be said about their High School carrers...McNeal was on the better Team. Madison was one game away from state because of YOUNG and a lil help from Courtney Lewis. I'm kinda in the middle-aged bracket here but one thing I've noticed is that every one is gonna say that their own is the best and really hasn't seen anything else. Ofcourse people in Lufkin are gonna say Mcneal is better and he has a state title but once you get to the next levels that dosent matter....just think how many other guys has won state once you get to college. The pros don't care who won state while they were in High School. Vince is a freak of nature and would have been a Heisman canidate no matter what school he went to. Reggie Mcneal is also a great player, but we can't use the "He dosn't have the people around him" excuse.

[TheDuke]

Once again you have said it perfect dad4w!!! It is like your reading my mind! Just like in the 2pac thread!! :D :D

[dada]

Thanks Duke. It's easier to see the Big Picture when you don't have a favorite. It's difference between being a fan of a certain sport and being a fan of a certain team. As for the music...I listen to EVERYTHING from Pet shop boys..to Alien Ant Farm to.....Chamillionaire and Mike Jones. And I grew up smack dead in the middle of Downtown Houston. Being in the military and traveling around the world changed my views on a lot of things and I wish everyone could have that experince.

And by the way...that Drabek kid at St.Pius in the younger brother of Kyle. Was Kyle drafted this past week?

[TheDuke]

I hope not!! He still has to play Football this year! Unless it doesn't matter if he were drafted or not? I would think it would?

[dada]

I dont think it matters. He still has to finish school first right?

[TheDuke]

Ya he does, I ment is there anything that the MLB can say about him playing a different sport that could mess up his career?

[dada]

Good question. I'm not to knowledgable in that area. How does that work? Would he be property of the team that drafted him? In anyother sport that would make him inelgiable(sp). I don't think they could dictate what he does while he was still in school. I mean it's not like he can report to camp once Baseball season is over. Some guys are Drafted(Townsend from Rice) and stay in school.

[pack0808]

LOOK!! You can print up that crap up ALL DAY LONG for all I care!! What does a 4.3 40 mean when you get run down from a 250 LB. Linebacker? NOTHING!!! Besides, you really think who ever is running that stop watch at the end of the 40 is honest? He ran a 4.3 his senior year on the track with shorts and a t- shirt maybe but with FULL PADS? PLEEEASE!! I like Reggie and I know you feel like you have to defend him because he is your boy, but the fact is he gets run down from DE & LB's! Young does not!
:rolleyes:


lord duke get some help!! lol it is not crap and the clippings were from games and legit sources. give up the conpsiracy theory on his 4.3. he has been clocked again and again. that was the virginia tech coach and the pitt coach saying he is the fastest they have ever seen after playing him. i guess you are smarter then the nfl scouts and college coaches. :rolleyes: congrats. so reggie was run down on a dead sprint by a 250 lb guy. you are hallucinating i think. i am sure they had head starts and angles. i have never seen him get caught from behind when going at a dead srpint. ever!! i watch him all the time. ignore the facts i could care less. mcneal was one of the top sprinters in texas young was not. :eek: either way i just want this subject to end. it is hard not to respond to nonsense though. nobody runs as fast with full pads and i never said he did run a 4.3 in full pads did i?? everybody slows down so nothing changes. that is fine duke you think young is better then mcneal. fine!! i feel different. both are great athletes and have a future in the nfl no matter who we think is better. you are free to have your opinion and i am free to have mine. we disagree so what. i disagree with people all the time. i disagreed with you when you said the woodlands would beat lufkin last year also. ;) no hard feelings we just disagree.

[TheDuke]

lord duke get some help!! lol it is not crap and the clippings were from games and legit sources. give up the conpsiracy theory on his 4.3. he has been clocked again and again. that was the virginia tech coach and the pitt coach saying he is the fastest they have ever seen after playing him. i guess you are smarter then the nfl scouts and college coaches. :rolleyes: congrats. so reggie was run down on a dead sprint by a 250 lb guy. you are hallucinating i think. i am sure they had head starts and angles. i have never seen him get caught from behind when going at a dead srpint. ever!! i watch him all the time. ignore the facts i could care less. mcneal was one of the top sprinters in texas young was not. :eek: either way i just want this subject to end. it is hard not to respond to nonsense though. nobody runs as fast with full pads and i never said he did run a 4.3 in full pads did i?? everybody slows down so nothing changes. that is fine duke you think young is better then mcneal. fine!! i feel different. both are great athletes and have a future in the nfl no matter who we think is better. you are free to have your opinion and i am free to have mine. we disagree so what. i disagree with people all the time. i disagreed with you when you said the woodlands would beat lufkin last year also. ;) no hard feelings we just disagree.

I agree!! Guess I better get some help because I don't think McNeal is the greatest QB ever! :rolleyes: All is well though, I think he a a great QB, he is definately a better passer then Young is! I hope he has a great career on Sunday's someday. I guess we will all see who is better when they face off in Kyle Field this year. When we talked last year about the Pack & Woodlands game you predicted a blow out! We tried to make a game of it! I will see you at Ole Abe in October to see if we can return the favor of a home loss!!

[pack0808]

i do not remember picking a blow out?? maybe you are right?? either way i did not say get some help because you do not think reggie is the greatest qb. i said that because you keep questioning his 40 time. he has been clocked over and over by nfl and college scouts so i know it is true. again, no hard feelings i just get a little too worked up sometimes like many others when arguing for my teams and players. i really should not but i do. :) not to mention it is only summer!! i need to take a xanax i guess. ;) it is just football it is just football it is just football. ok i am better now. :D

[jtk1519]

The thing with Reggie is that he has sick speed. I believe that he runs in the 4.3s, but that doesnt mean a whole lot on the football field. Now, I will be the first to admit that I throw out 40 times all the time and expect them to mean something, but when was the last time you saw a football player in a football game running for 40 yards in a t-shirt and shorts with nobody around him? My guess would be never. So Reggie is faster than Young... Duh. However, Young posseses more "football speed" than Reggie. He may not get down the field quicker than Reggie, but he cuts quicker, he thinks quicker, he makes his move quicker and he is far more elusive than Reggie will ever be.

That is why Vince is able to make plays like this...

http://jcdenton.unmatchedmedia.com/UTvUM04-VinceYoung-TD2(DivX).avi

...while Reggie makes plays like this...

http://www.jcdenton41.com/UTvATM04-MichaelHuff-TFL(DivX).avi

It's no knock on Reggie. The kid has wheels and nobody can deny that. If you put Reggie and Vince in full pads, lined them up on the 50 and then had the race to the endzone... Reggie would win 99 times out of 100, but if you put both of those guys on the field with the same offense going against the same defense (a quality defense), Vince is going to beat Reggie to the endzone at least 75 out of 100 times. If they both ran track, Reggie would be the clear favorite... but this isnt track.

[garlandowl08]

I have absolutely no problem with your argument, and i would actually agree with you (just not in public...oops) but the one thing that makes me angry is when people generalize athletes skills by posting 1 video clip for each, one good and one bad. If you actually did some analysis of a good play for each an to back yourself up, I would applaud you, but what you did was a textbook example of what makes me mad...but its not just you...its a lot of people

[TheDuke]

i do not remember picking a blow out?? maybe you are right?? either way i did not say get some help because you do not think reggie is the greatest qb. i said that because you keep questioning his 40 time. he has been clocked over and over by nfl and college scouts so i know it is true. again, no hard feelings i just get a little too worked up sometimes like many others when arguing for my teams and players. i really should not but i do. :) not to mention it is only summer!! i need to take a xanax i guess. ;) it is just football it is just football it is just football. ok i am better now. :D

ME2!! I was being a smart a** myself!! No harm at all and same goes for me! It is amazing how serious we can get when were talking about the greatest sport ever invented isn't it! I can tell you that I am pumped about coming out to Ole Abe this year to play. Should be a good experience! Hopefully not a horrible one!:D

[jtk1519]

I have absolutely no problem with your argument, and i would actually agree with you (just not in public...oops) but the one thing that makes me angry is when people generalize athletes skills by posting 1 video clip for each, one good and one bad. If you actually did some analysis of a good play for each an to back yourself up, I would applaud you, but what you did was a textbook example of what makes me mad...but its not just you...its a lot of people

I posted just one clip for each because it would take too much time to post 50 for each. I understand what you are saying, but this really isnt the place to go into a very detailed, play by play, break down. I think most of us here have seen both Reggie and Vince play many times so we know what they are both capable of. If I wasnt presenting this argument to a complete stranger who had never seen either QB, then posting just one clip for each would be less than adequate for such a discussion.

However, just to show that I am fair, you can see the best of Reggie here...

http://www.aggies9496.com/Images/Videos/TheRealDeal2004.wmv

I think when you watch that video and then watch clips of VY, you will see what I'm talking about. Reggie doesnt look near as smooth running with the ball (of course VY doesnt look as smooth throwing so it kind of balances out). In fact, I would say Reggie looks rather stiff running. Reggie runs more upright (like a track guy) while Vince stays lower to the ground to make his cuts (like RBs are taught). Reggie doesnt make the cuts Vince does, he doesnt avoid contact the way Vince does and he isnt near as elusive. Most of the plays he makes with his feet come from having very large holes in front of him so that he doesnt have to avoid contact and can pretty much run straoght ahead thereby utilizing his speed. Vince is able to make plays even with a defense baring down on him. Example...

http://www.jcdenton41.com/UTvATM04-VinceYoung-Run1(DivX).avi

You may even compare videos and say that Vince looks faster. I stick by my argument that Reggie has more pure speed, but Vince's long legged frame makes him look deceptively fast. I would venture to guess that if the two were to run 100 yards, Reggie would take twice as many steps to do it just because Vince has such a long stride. Again, none of this is a knock on Reggie. Kid is a damn good athlete, but if you want to know why Reggie gets brought down by D-linemen and LBs that arent near as fast while VY scampers by them, it's because Vince has more football speed.

[Schultz01]

Reggie 7 - Tennessee 35. Vince vs. Michigan in the Whiner's Bowl. UT still had to kick a field goal in the last few seconds to beat a mediocre team. Jason Campbell of Auburn was better than either of these two. You can have 'em and the DC Magazine too.

[pack0808]

michigan was not a mediocre team last year. that is silly to say!! whiners bowl?? a big 10 team or a pac 10 team has won 4 national titles in the last 7 years so why would they need to whine?? i am an iowa fan and i can tell you that michigan was not mediocre last year. iowa destroyed ohio st and beat lsu to finish in the #8 last year for the 3rd year in a row but they lost to michigan. of course it was the first time michigan beat iowa in 3 years but that does not take away from what they did last year. texas beat a very good michigan team. michigan struggled on defense more then usual last year but they were still very good. they are always good.

[farmerfan]

I think the whiner reference was directed at Mack Brown and his campaign to sway voters to pick vote Texas ahead of Cal.
I agree that Michigan was not a mediocre team, however they were a team coming into the Rose Bowl coming off of a 20+ point loss, pack you hit as far as defense goes, they were well below Michigan standards on defense. The offense was young, but still very explosive, and will be even better this year. Overall that Michigan team was a good team, not great but far from Mediocre.

[wide-e-wide]

In the end...this is all that really matters----------

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/bogthekid/untitled.bmp

[mtbray]

to.....Chamillionaire and Mike Jones.


Did you hear Mixtape Messiah? Don't know many who listen to chamillionaire that haven't been "converted"....heh

[dada]

Did you hear Mixtape Messiah? Don't know many who listen to chamillionaire that haven't been "converted"....heh

I cant wait for Chamillionaire to go nation wide. He is the truth. He signed with Universal and I heard he was on the Longest Yard soundtrack....but man...some of his underground stuff......wow. Don't get tricked into buying "Controversy Sells" though...

[southlake thug]

yeah that song off the longest yard soundtrack is real hot.. he has some real good stuff

[businesstron]

Reggie 7 - Tennessee 35. Vince vs. Michigan in the Whiner's Bowl. UT still had to kick a field goal in the last few seconds to beat a mediocre team. Jason Campbell of Auburn was better than either of these two. You can have 'em and the DC Magazine too.

Jason Campball? He had a great year last year but that seemed to be more because of the OC the last couple years before that he was a average to Mediocre QB @ that with Caddilac and Ronnie Brown behind him. Jason Campbell is a system player at best. Tennessee did get on TXAM but Michigen wasn't Mediocre.

[wide-e-wide]

Chamillionaire?
Good grief..what has happened to the rap game?
Surely you can't be serious. He is a local celebrity at best.

Scarface struggled with getting nationwide attention for years.
And is still not well known in certain parts of the country.
Don't expect Chamillionaire to make it any time soon. And by any
time soon I mean .....never.

[southlake thug]

come on... chamillionaire has some serious skills

he is going to be all over BET in a couple of months, just wait

[wide-e-wide]

And being all over BET is an accomplishment...Skee-lo was all over
BET...what's your point?

[pack4life]

[QUOTE=wide-e-wide]And being all over BET is an accomplishment...Skee-lo was all over
BET...what's your point?[/QUOTE"]

"I wish i was a little bit taller i wish a i was a baller i wish i had a girl who looked good i would call her :p "

[businesstron]

And being all over BET is an accomplishment...Skee-lo was all over
BET...what's your point?


Good point 90% of the stuff on bet is wack... Chamillionaire does have skills(he ain't the best in houston though lyrically speaking). He may make it he may not, it's more of who you know. How'd Mike Jones go nationwide over Cham Mike Jones is a joke...

[garlandowl08]

How did we get to this subject?

[dragonsdaddy]

i suggest starting a music forum to get rid of these quasi threads.

[wide-e-wide]

Now if we could just do something about these quasi intelligent posters.

[dragonsdaddy]

i resemble that remark.

[stevefoxsc]

after watching VY and REG in both bowl games and other games beside this one hearing lots n lots of debating back in forth in here i have to go with one choice Vy!

[wide-e-wide]

i resemble that remark.
So do I..hahaha

[Papa LoneStar]

Chamillionaire?
Good grief..what has happened to the rap game?
Surely you can't be serious. He is a local celebrity at best.


:D Let's bring this back up at the end of the year. ;)

[mtbray]

I cant wait for Chamillionaire to go nation wide. He is the truth. He signed with Universal and I heard he was on the Longest Yard soundtrack....but man...some of his underground stuff......wow. Don't get tricked into buying "Controversy Sells" though...

Why do you say don't buy CS? Check out his greatest hits album.....damn.


Chamillionaire?
Good grief..what has happened to the rap game?
Surely you can't be serious. He is a local celebrity at best.

Scarface struggled with getting nationwide attention for years.
And is still not well known in certain parts of the country.
Don't expect Chamillionaire to make it any time soon. And by any
time soon I mean .....never.

What do you mean what happened to the rap game?

I really hope Chamillionaire stays underground. About the time they blow up is about the time the quality of what they put out goes to ****. Not only that but I'd prefer to keep the likes of Chamillionaire from gettin played out by Clear Channel.

[mtbray]

Good point 90% of the stuff on bet is wack... Chamillionaire does have skills(he ain't the best in houston though lyrically speaking). He may make it he may not, it's more of who you know. How'd Mike Jones go nationwide over Cham Mike Jones is a joke...

Who, in your opinion, is the best in houston? And I have to agree with you about Mr. Dike Jones and his nursery rhymes.

[dada]

Why do you say don't buy CS? Check out his greatest hits album.....damn.



What do you mean what happened to the rap game?

I really hope Chamillionaire stays underground. About the time they blow up is about the time the quality of what they put out goes to ****. Not only that but I'd prefer to keep the likes of Chamillionaire from gettin played out by Clear Channel.


I know we are in the wrong thread...but Controversy Sells was put out by Paid in Full...who Cham has a lawsuit against...the put bits and pieces together of him and paul to make an Cd and talked about Cham the whole time. RIGHT NOW I think Cham is one of the best in Houston. Mike Jones shows how much rap music has fell off...SIMPLE...but people love it. I actually know Scarface personally and he is, no pun intended "The Last of a Dying Breed", so is Bun-B. Also a friend of mine just signed to Swishahouse..but they are more like OutKast so I don't know how that is gonna work on that label. The group's name is Aqualeo. And if any of you guys watched that dumb reality show "The Player" awhile back on UPN....Acie is the guy who won....he is in the group.

Make sure you pick up some of Chams underground stuff:
Mixtape Messiah
Chamillitary
Color Changing Click
What it Dew with Rapid Rick
Tha Bottom Vols. 1-4 with Dj Ideal
And ofcourse, Get your mind correct.

[dragonsdaddy]

if hating this is wrong, i don't want to be right.

[mtbray]

I know we are in the wrong thread...but Controversy Sells was put out by Paid in Full...who Cham has a lawsuit against...the put bits and pieces together of him and paul to make an Cd and talked about Cham the whole time. RIGHT NOW I think Cham is one of the best in Houston. Mike Jones shows how much rap music has fell off...SIMPLE...but people love it. I actually know Scarface personally and he is, no pun intended "The Last of a Dying Breed", so is Bun-B. Also a friend of mine just signed to Swishahouse..but they are more like OutKast so I don't know how that is gonna work on that label. The group's name is Aqualeo. And if any of you guys watched that dumb reality show "The Player" awhile back on UPN....Acie is the guy who won....he is in the group.

Make sure you pick up some of Chams underground stuff:
Mixtape Messiah
Chamillitary
Color Changing Click
What it Dew with Rapid Rick
Tha Bottom Vols. 1-4 with Dj Ideal
And ofcourse, Get your mind correct.

Mixtape Messiah for sure...

I just wish Chamillionaire and Paul Wall would reunite under CCC and sell a bajillion albums together. I mean damn....the two of them....(my two favorite rappers)

50/50 Twin is also up there imo, as is Slim Thug although he's kinda mainstream now.

[dada]

is there any way we can move this to the "Off-Topic" Thread...dont want to upset anyone. I think Slim Thug is a bigger version of Flip. I guess being from Houstom and hearing all of their Underground stuff...they go mainstream and it seems weak, because we have heard better from them. But yeah...I loved Paul and Cham together.

[svhorns]

I think we got a clear cut winner:D

[gtown04]

Took you almost 2 years to figure that out? :D

Edit::
Sorry, could have sworn it said 2006...

[svhorns]

Took you almost 2 years to figure that out? :D

Edit::
Sorry, could have sworn it said 2006...

Oh I knew all along... c'mon Vince Young is a beast

[jtk1519]

Holy cow. I looked so young back then.

[elprezidente]

right now i want to complie a list of everyone who doubted superman. i want to, but im not sure.........

[jtk1519]

reggie has won a championship. is that what you are looking for??

This is the best post in the history of the intergoogle. :D

[PurpleNation]

This is the best post in the history of the intergoogle. :D

Vince had way better talent around him then McNeal ever had in his 4 years. Dont get me wrong Vince was the most dominate duel threat QB in college history, but lets no forget that he was at Texas and had better players to work with.

I say Give McNeal Roy Williams, Sloan Thomas, BJ Johnson and Cedrick Benson they would have won a National Championship in 2003.

McNeal beat OU when they were #1 as a freshmen and his supporting cast was not nearly as good as what Vince Had against USC.

[garlandowl08]

I think McNeal's lack of a good attitude and leadership made any deficit between the physical abilities of the two much worse. I would contend that McNeal is more of a freak of nature type athelete, but VY has the football QB gene, whatever it is...

[jtk1519]

I think McNeal's lack of a good attitude and leadership made any deficit between the physical abilities of the two much worse. I would contend that McNeal is more of a freak of nature type athelete, but VY has the football QB gene, whatever it is...

I agree. Reggie simply was never a leader at the college level which is why everybody turned on him his senior year. There are too many examples of good QBs carrying mediocre teams to success to pull the old "he didn't have the talent" card.

BTW, Reggie did beat the dirt burglars his freshman season... then he lost to them 77-0 the next season in a game in which he led his team to a whopping 54 yards of total offense.

[stevefoxsc]

I agree. Reggie simply was never a leader at the college level which is why everybody turned on him his senior year. There are too many examples of good QBs carrying mediocre teams to success to pull the old "he didn't have the talent" card.

BTW, Reggie did beat the dirt burglars his freshman season... then he lost to them 77-0 the next season in a game in which he led his team to a whopping 54 yards of total offense.

fact time with foxsc if you check wiki any main article in relation to aggy waggy and the 77-0 thromping you'll notice its no where to be found. makes you think whose been editing it ;)

[garlandowl08]

fact time with foxsc if you check wiki any main article in relation to aggy waggy and the 77-0 thromping you'll notice its no where to be found. makes you think whose been editing it ;)

That isnt surprising at all. Of course Aggies should be editing the page-they know the most about the school. And if that doesn't seem to meet your quality standards, you can take it up with Wikipedia because A&M is one of 9 Universities that have articles qualified to be "Featured Articles"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_articles#Education

[jakerz]

That isnt surprising at all. Of course Aggies should be editing the page-they know the most about the school. And if that doesn't seem to meet your quality standards, you can take it up with Wikipedia because A&M is one of 12 Universities that have articles qualified to be "Featured Articles"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_articles#Education

So is Rajshahi University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajshahi_University)

Good company you're in with!

[elprezidente]

So is Rajshahi University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajshahi_University)

Good company you're in with!
i dont even care about the texas thing, thats just straight funny. = [[]

[garlandowl08]

So is Rajshahi University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajshahi_University)

Good company you're in with!

It's not based on what the article is about, but how well written and accurate the article is...The other colleges involved are:
Cornell
Duke
Michigan State
Indian Institutes of Technology
Ohio Wesleyan University
Oriel College
Rajshahi University
University of Michigan

Also, interesting to note that Plano High School is a featured article.