Say it aint so Theo

[farmerfan]

Theo just rejected the Red Sox offer to extend his deal as GM of the Boston Red Sox. This shocks me, considering Theo was a Boston boy, growing up in Brookline, which is right outside of Boston, this was his dream job so seeing him reject this offer is a big shock. This should be interesting to see who Boston goes after for their next GM.

[GTown02]

Theo just rejected the Red Sox offer to extend his deal as GM of the Boston Red Sox. This shocks me, considering Theo was a Boston boy, growing up in Brookline, which is right outside of Boston, this was his dream job so seeing him reject this offer is a big shock. This should be interesting to see who Boston goes after for their next GM.
How long was Theo there? Like 2 seasons? I know I wouldnt turn down a contract extension to be GM of the Boston Redsox...

[farmerfan]

How long was Theo there? Like 2 seasons? I know I wouldnt turn down a contract extension to be GM of the Boston Redsox...


He was there for 3 seasons, in fact he is responsible for getting the Red Sox to the postseason for 3 straight years for the 1st time in franchise history.
He was a Boston boy, has been a lifelong Red Sox fan and has a lot of passion for Boston. He was offered a three year contract worth 1.5 million a year which i think is a slap in the face to him, I think the guy was worth more. He is leaving some big shoes to fill and it will take time to replace him, I am hoping that some agreement can be reached to bring him back, but I highly doubt it.

[southlake thug]

I guess he got sick of Manny's crap also. Farmer - what are they going to do about him? He he once agian asking/demanding to be traded.

[wide-e-wide]

Wow...didn't see that one coming.
Who is gonna replace him...?

[farmerfan]

I guess he got sick of Manny's crap also. Farmer - what are they going to do about him? He he once agian asking/demanding to be traded.

I dont think he got sick of Manny, Manny is sick of the media and fans in Boston. I can't say I blame him, fans in Boston are fanatics, they will not allow anyone to have a personal life, which is why many of the players can not go out on the twon. Also the media in Boston swarms Manny, it seems the more he ask for freedom the less he gets. Manny and Theo actually understood each other and got along great. I thought that Theo would be able to work out the porblems with Manny and he would stay in Boston. Now i dont have much hope that Manny will be back.
Theo got sick of the same thing Manny did. I have read stories where Theo would fake talking on his cellphone out in public just so people would leave him alone. Factor in that he was a local boy and his popularity in Boston was on par with the likes of Jerry Remy, Tom Brady and Larry Bird. I also think their was soome bad blood between Larry Luquino and Epstein, even though no one will come out and admit it, I believe it was there.

As far as who Ithink will replace him, I have no clue. I hope it is quick and someone who can take some chances, we need something set in stone so we can work on getting a deal with Damon, talking to Manny and hopefully get some pitching in here.

[southlake thug]

I have never been to Boston and I do not follow the Red Sox more then I do any other team. And i am just throwing out a comment, But how can this be blamed on the media? I know for a fact that the New York media is much worse, and Cashman just re-signed. The fans are tougher also. Yeah Red Sox fans are fanatical, but that comes with the territory for a GM in that city. As for Manny, i wish he would just make up his mind. I lost count about how many times he has asked for a trade, and then said how happy he is a week later.

But for Theo, what do you guys think about the Dodgers vacancy? I haven't had a chance to watch any TV or read anything latly, so I don't know what the situation with that is. And LA is a big change from Boston. But I am sure that most teams in the league are interested.

[farmerfan]

I have never been to Boston and I do not follow the Red Sox more then I do any other team. And i am just throwing out a comment, But how can this be blamed on the media? I know for a fact that the New York media is much worse, and Cashman just re-signed. The fans are tougher also. Yeah Red Sox fans are fanatical, but that comes with the territory for a GM in that city. As for Manny, i wish he would just make up his mind. I lost count about how many times he has asked for a trade, and then said how happy he is a week later.

But for Theo, what do you guys think about the Dodgers vacancy? I haven't had a chance to watch any TV or read anything latly, so I don't know what the situation with that is. And LA is a big change from Boston. But I am sure that most teams in the league are interested.


If Theo gets back into baseball next year it will either be in San Diego or Arizona.
As far as Boston and the media, they are very difficult on the Red Sox, between the Boston Globe, Boston Hearld, WEEI 850AM and NESN, it makes life a living hell.
Theo is a boston boy, he is a local hero, his life has taken a different turn by becoming a successful GM. He has no privacy in Boston. Everywhere he goes he is mobbed by fans and media outlets. Theo's life is one that is under microscopic prportions 24/7/365. If you ever get the chance to go to Boston, you will realize it is a very small city, one of the easiest cities to walk in the United States. The size of Boston is much smaller than any other major city in this country, so basicly anytime he goes out in public he will be noticed, factor that into the way the Red Sox are covered year around in Boston, then he gets sick of dealing with the media as well as fans.
When I was in Boston this past summer I saw a lot of why players or GM's can get sick of it. Factor in that he is from Brookline, Mass which is as close to Boston, as Highland Park is to Dallas, then you can see that his life is hectic.
I know he loved this job and he loves the Red Sox, but the people in Boston need to give Red Sox players and others within the organization some breathing room. This is why no one on the Celtics, Patriots or Bruins complain about Boston, its because it is a Red Sox town and they are left alone.

[wide-e-wide]

Hey...is Theo still dating Katy Couric?

[farmerfan]

Hey...is Theo still dating Katy Couric?

No, one of the theories to why he is stepping down is because he is 31, single and would like to start a family. I dont know when the Katy Couric thing ended, but it was a while ago.

[wide-e-wide]

No, one of the theories to why he is stepping down is because he is 31, single and would like to start a family. I dont know when the Katy Couric thing ended, but it was a while ago.


What is Katy Couric....like 4' 10"...she's a little bitty thang ain't she?
Theo probably gets more tail than you can shake a stick at...

[Primetime536]

How long was Theo there? Like 2 seasons? I know I wouldnt turn down a contract extension to be GM of the Boston Redsox...
3 years, get this ***** out of boston, im so mad he left, what a trader

[wide-e-wide]

3 years, get this ***** out of boston, im so mad he left, what a trader


Most general manager's are traders....especially the good ones...Theo was an incredible trader...hey he got Schilling didn't he?

OOOOOOOh you meant ...traitor....

Sorry...primetime...I couldn't resist.

[Primetime536]

Most general manager's are traders....especially the good ones...Theo was an incredible trader...hey he got Schilling didn't he?

OOOOOOOh you meant ...traitor....

Sorry...primetime...I couldn't resist.
never misspell a word, please, dont, ill be all overyou, kinda like i am in this trivia game im dominating you in

[wide-e-wide]

Dude ...if anything you are keeping it close...you are NOT all over me...
But I'm not doing too bad for a guy with no sports knowledge huh? :rolleyes:

[farmerfan]

3 years, get this ***** out of boston, im so mad he left, what a trader

The dude is from Boston, there is no traitor qualities in him. If anything you should be pissed at John Henry and Larry Lucchino. They should have resigned Theo during spring training of 2005. He was not appreciated by the front office and they never gave him credit.
He was responsible for bringing in Ortiz, Schilling, Foulke, traiding Nomar for Cabrea who had a monster postseason in 2004, and rebuilding the farm system into one of the best in baseball. To be honest with you, I can see why he would leave, and to call him a traitor is flat out wrong.

[wide-e-wide]

The dude is from Boston, there is no traitor qualities in him. If anything you should be pissed at John Henry and Larry Lucchino. They should have resigned Theo during spring training of 2005. He was not appreciated by the front office and they never gave him credit.
He was responsible for bringing in Ortiz, Schilling, Foulke, traiding Nomar for Cabrea who had a monster postseason in 2004, and rebuilding the farm system into one of the best in baseball. To be honest with you, I can see why he would leave, and to call him a traitor is flat out wrong.


I agree with farmer...
Except I think Atlanta has the best farm program in the league.

[farmerfan]

I agree with farmer...
Except I think Atlanta has the best farm program in the league.

Atlanta is awesome, John Schurholtz is head and shoulders the best GM in all of baseball. The braves will be winning division titles to the day we all die, it is remarkable what they have been able to do. They lose a superstar to free agency only to have one in triple A Richmond ready to replace them.

[lonny23]

Go ahead and get John Hart. I hear he's available! ;)

[farmerfan]

Go ahead and get John Hart. I hear he's available! ;)

if they hired the "empty golf shirt" i would literally go up to beantown and kick John Henry and Larry Lucchino's a$$, that is if someone else from Boston hadn't alredy.

[southlake thug]

I would go also. The only team that I would allow Hart to go to would be another AL West team. I would honestly feel bad if he went to any other team and ruined there fans and there team.

[lonny23]

if they hired the "empty golf shirt" i would literally go up to beantown and kick John Henry and Larry Lucchino's a$$, that is if someone else from Boston hadn't alredy.
Now, what do you really think? :p

[Primetime536]

The dude is from Boston, there is no traitor qualities in him. If anything you should be pissed at John Henry and Larry Lucchino. They should have resigned Theo during spring training of 2005. He was not appreciated by the front office and they never gave him credit.
He was responsible for bringing in Ortiz, Schilling, Foulke, traiding Nomar for Cabrea who had a monster postseason in 2004, and rebuilding the farm system into one of the best in baseball. To be honest with you, I can see why he would leave, and to call him a traitor is flat out wrong.
ok, how is he not a traitor? Grew up in boston signs for 300,000 for 3 years, does a GREAT job. Gets offered 1.5 mil for his so called "dream job". If it was his dream job dont you think he woulda stayed. He wasnt appreciated by the front office, and, why does that matter? They offered him 1.5 mil which is great for a gm, and all the credit any gm would need would come from the fans. And trust me Theo is basicly a rock star in Boston, well i guese he WAS a rock star in boston. Why the hell would he leave, because of lucchino? Who cares about lucchino. I dont want to hear anything about theo not getting enough power, look at all the trades he put in his own hands, without interference, besides a-rod trade.And all the sh!t about theo resigning because boston repoted he was already signed is so rediculous. Why would that matter? I just dont understand how a man who "loves" the sox, "loves" his players, and "loves" being a gm, could walk away from 1 on the 2 best gm jobs in baseball. In my eyes hes a traitor, whos looking for more money. Hell what else is new, a person acossiated with pro sports taking the money.

This is coming from a die-hard sox fan.

[farmerfan]

ok, how is he not a traitor? Grew up in boston signs for 300,000 for 3 years, does a GREAT job. Gets offered 1.5 mil for his so called "dream job". If it was his dream job dont you think he woulda stayed. He wasnt appreciated by the front office, and, why does that matter? They offered him 1.5 mil which is great for a gm, and all the credit any gm would need would come from the fans. And trust me Theo is basicly a rock star in Boston, well i guese he WAS a rock star in boston. Why the hell would he leave, because of lucchino? Who cares about lucchino. I dont want to hear anything about theo not getting enough power, look at all the trades he put in his own hands, without interference, besides a-rod trade.And all the sh!t about theo resigning because boston repoted he was already signed is so rediculous. Why would that matter? I just dont understand how a man who "loves" the sox, "loves" his players, and "loves" being a gm, could walk away from 1 on the 2 best gm jobs in baseball. In my eyes hes a traitor, whos looking for more money. Hell what else is new, a person acossiated with pro sports taking the money.

This is coming from a die-hard sox fan.


who cares about luchinno? Theo was brought up throught the system by lucchino. Lucchino had his chance to show aprreciation to Theo and never did. Lucchino and John Henry both had from the end of the world series in 04 till monday night to resign Theo and they dropped the ball. It is a slap in his face for him to do what he did in that short 3 year period and not offer him a extension after he brings a world title to Boston.
He is no traitor and he is not looking for as much money as you may think. He had been clear in his negotiations that he wanted 1.5 million, they offered him 800,000 at first then upped it to 1.5. If they cared about Theo and wanted him to stay, they would have extended his contract before 2005 even started. Theo is still a rock star in Boston.
I think the general consensus in Boston is not to blame Theo or call him a traitor, that is jut wrong. The front office dropped the ball on this and they are the ones to blame.
This coming from a die hard sox fan to.

[Primetime536]

who cares about luchinno? Theo was brought up throught the system by lucchino. Lucchino had his chance to show aprreciation to Theo and never did. Lucchino and John Henry both had from the end of the world series in 04 till monday night to resign Theo and they dropped the ball. It is a slap in his face for him to do what he did in that short 3 year period and not offer him a extension after he brings a world title to Boston.
He is no traitor and he is not looking for as much money as you may think. He had been clear in his negotiations that he wanted 1.5 million, they offered him 800,000 at first then upped it to 1.5. If they cared about Theo and wanted him to stay, they would have extended his contract before 2005 even started. Theo is still a rock star in Boston.
I think the general consensus in Boston is not to blame Theo or call him a traitor, that is jut wrong. The front office dropped the ball on this and they are the ones to blame.
This coming from a die hard sox fan to.
slap in the face?

are we talking about Pedro or maybe ty law?

[farmerfan]

slap in the face?

are we talking about Pedro or maybe ty law?

no, we are talking that the front office basicly gave him no credit for the world title, it is a slap in his face by not offering him a extension after he brings a world title to boston. It is also dispicable to offer him 800,000 a year when the guy is worth at least 2 million. It wasnt until saturday night that the Sox took their offer up to 1.5, he made it clear from day one he wanted to negotiate for his contract, but the front office dropped the ball. That is how it is a slap in his face.

[southlake thug]

I know a certain team from Tampa Bay that would give him at least 4 mil a year.

[GTown02]

I know a certain team from Tampa Bay that would give him at least 4 mil a year.
I bet Tom Hicks would give him 5 at least...

[southlake thug]

Not anymore. We got the other young-gun Jon Daniels. I read a report that the Dodgers were intersted in Hart. Haha good luck with him LA. I would be glad to get him out of TX.

[GTown02]

Not anymore. We got the other young-gun Jon Daniels. I read a report that the Dodgers were intersted in Hart. Haha good luck with him LA. I would be glad to get him out of TX.
Yea I know, hopefully he works better than hart ;). Too bad they didnt send him to another AL west team? I know Anaheim and Oakland werent looking was Seattle looking for a new GM this offseason? Maybe Hart can go up there and screw that team up even more than they are now ;).

[southlake thug]

Intersting... Guess who was walking around the Carroll Senior High Campus today? None other then the great Tommy Lasorda. He was at the Dragon baseball practice and then made his way over to watch the football team practice. I guess the rumors about John Hart and the Dodgers may be true after all.

[Primetime536]

no, we are talking that the front office basicly gave him no credit for the world title, it is a slap in his face by not offering him a extension after he brings a world title to boston. It is also dispicable to offer him 800,000 a year when the guy is worth at least 2 million. It wasnt until saturday night that the Sox took their offer up to 1.5, he made it clear from day one he wanted to negotiate for his contract, but the front office dropped the ball. That is how it is a slap in his face.
ah come on, slap in the face, 1.5 mil. is more that enough, i dont want to hear about him not recieving credit, thats rediculous, "in theo we trust" thats one of the lines about theo

[farmerfan]

ah come on, slap in the face, 1.5 mil. is more that enough, i dont want to hear about him not recieving credit, thats rediculous, "in theo we trust" thats one of the lines about theo


you are in over your head on this one primetime.

Reread my post, it was not until last saturday night that they offered him 1.5 million. The original offer was 800,000 and that stood until the front office realized that he might really leave. That's when they went up to 1.5 million. This is after a certain guy in new york just got a extension worth about 2 million a year over the next 3 years. Now what exactly has Cashman done in ny over the last 5 years that Theo has not done in Boston? Sure 1.5 million is a nice offer and one that anyone would jump on, but it is the whole notion that the front office was not even willing to give him that much until 2 days before his contract was set to expire. Also the inital offer of 800,000 is crap, after taxes factored into the cost of living in Boston, then Theo is making less than any other GM in baseball.
You say he got credit from the front office by them saying "In Theo we Trust", well it was not the front office that said that. That was the saying that fans in Boston and the rest of Red Sox nation came up with. Not once after the run in 2003 when the Sox were 5 outs away from the world series did Theo get praised for the season. Not once after the 2004 season when Theo brought in Terry Francona, Keith Foulke, Curt Schilling, traded Nomar for Cabrea did Theo get credit. Consider that those moves were the ones that brought Boston its first world title in 86 years and you would think they front office would resign him immidately, they did not. How is that not a slap in the face?
You thinking that Theo is a traitor is funny, it is like those who blame Dan Douquette for the Roger fiasco after the 95 season. It was wrong to blame Douquette and it is wrong to call Theo a traitor.

[relraiderfan]

farmerfan, i agree with you. this process was a slap in the face to theo. Especially when you consider they offered billy beane 2.5 million 3 years ago before they signed theo. Epstein turned this team around and gave them the long awaited title. When you wait till the last weekend to offer him 1.5 which is still 1 million less than Beane was offered. I would have left to and prove your greatness somewhere else.

[relraiderfan]

i submitted the last one forgetting to finish my thought. I also believe the relationship between Luchino and Epstein fell apart. My guess would be that Luchinno still viewed Theo as the brilliant, young kid that worked as his intern, when in fact he had turned into one of the best GMs in the game. Alright, now I am done.

[Primetime536]

you are in over your head on this one primetime.

Reread my post, it was not until last saturday night that they offered him 1.5 million. The original offer was 800,000 and that stood until the front office realized that he might really leave. That's when they went up to 1.5 million. This is after a certain guy in new york just got a extension worth about 2 million a year over the next 3 years. Now what exactly has Cashman done in ny over the last 5 years that Theo has not done in Boston? Sure 1.5 million is a nice offer and one that anyone would jump on, but it is the whole notion that the front office was not even willing to give him that much until 2 days before his contract was set to expire. Also the inital offer of 800,000 is crap, after taxes factored into the cost of living in Boston, then Theo is making less than any other GM in baseball.
You say he got credit from the front office by them saying "In Theo we Trust", well it was not the front office that said that. That was the saying that fans in Boston and the rest of Red Sox nation came up with. Not once after the run in 2003 when the Sox were 5 outs away from the world series did Theo get praised for the season. Not once after the 2004 season when Theo brought in Terry Francona, Keith Foulke, Curt Schilling, traded Nomar for Cabrea did Theo get credit. Consider that those moves were the ones that brought Boston its first world title in 86 years and you would think they front office would resign him immidately, they did not. How is that not a slap in the face?
You thinking that Theo is a traitor is funny, it is like those who blame Dan Douquette for the Roger fiasco after the 95 season. It was wrong to blame Douquette and it is wrong to call Theo a traitor.
i know the front office didnt make up the line, "in theo we trust" i was saying thats a line of the credit theo is given. Come on, think about it, why does it matter if the front office doesnt give theo credit, who care what LL and JH think if they are giving him 1.5.......No credit,,,theo got no credit after 04 get real bro, have you ever been to Boston, if not youll see shirts with manny on them, big papi, and shirts with THEO on them. Hes not even a player, but hes respected so much hes on T-shirts. The mans a god in Boston. Yea, your right though, 1.5 is a "slap in the face". 1.5 for trading baseball players, for a team you have "loved" your whole life. Offer a true redsox fan a job like this they would do it for free, i know i would. I just dont see why a person who say hes so passionate for the sox, could turn down such a deal because a lack of privacy. The lack of privacy is the nature of the life of a person acossiated with bastball. So wheres he looking for a job, in? LA. How is la different from boston. Big city, tons of press, come on now. Lets get rea, If theo wants to stay in MLB, he better to get used to this lifestyle, becuase baseballs not going to change.

[farmerfan]

i know the front office didnt make up the line, "in theo we trust" i was saying thats a line of the credit theo is given. Come on, think about it, why does it matter if the front office doesnt give theo credit, who care what LL and JH think if they are giving him 1.5.......No credit,,,theo got no credit after 04 get real bro, have you ever been to Boston, if not youll see shirts with manny on them, big papi, and shirts with THEO on them. Hes not even a player, but hes respected so much hes on T-shirts. The mans a god in Boston. Yea, your right though, 1.5 is a "slap in the face". 1.5 for trading baseball players, for a team you have "loved" your whole life. Offer a true redsox fan a job like this they would do it for free, i know i would. I just dont see why a person who say hes so passionate for the sox, could turn down such a deal because a lack of privacy. The lack of privacy is the nature of the life of a person acossiated with bastball. So wheres he looking for a job, in? LA. How is la different from boston. Big city, tons of press, come on now. Lets get rea, If theo wants to stay in MLB, he better to get used to this lifestyle, becuase baseballs not going to change.


That comment right there makes me realize you dont have a clue what your talking about.
You think Theo's privacy in Boston would be the same compared to LA?
Like I said, Boston is a very small town, Theo can not go anywhere in Boston without being recognized, in a city like LA it would be much different. First, Dodger fans are not near as passionate as Boston fans, second LA covers a area about the size from Worcester,Mass to the Atlantic Ocean, it is literally 10x the size of Boston. Third, Theo grew up in Boston, he has loved the Red Sox his whole life, this is strictly a personal move and one that many would make. You also think the media in Boston and LA are the same? that is laughable, the Boston media is known to be one of the most critical in America, in fact when it comes to Baseball in this country you would be hard pressed to find a city with a media more difficult to deal with than in Boston,MA. The LA media could care less about baseball when compared to the Boston media, writers like Dan Shaughnessy, Bob Ryan, Michael Silverman and Jackie MacMullan in newspapers, to Glen Ordway, Dale Arnold and Michae Holley on WEEI 850AM, to NESN's Jerry Remy and Sam Horn. You will not find anyone in LA who will be as critical on the Dodgers as these guys are on the Red Sox.

You hit my point when you said you go to Boston and see shirts with Manny, Damon, Tek, Pappi and "In Theo We Trust" on them. Why? because the fans realize what he means to the organization, the front office does not. You sound like those fans from the mid 90's that did not see the fault in Roger but blamed Douquette, when in reality it was Roger that deserved to be balmed for his performace thus not bringing the Sox offering him a contract that he desired. Also, if you go to any of the boston websites, whether it be NESN, WEEI, BOSTON.COM, or sonsofsamhorn, you will see the general reaction is not to blame Theo but the front office.

You ask if I have ever been to Boston, well I have been going to Boston since the 80's, I could literally walk that city with my eyes closed, take away the politics and I think like a Bostonian. You calling Theo a traitor shows your lack of knowledge or understanding of what is going on here.

Like relraiderfan acknowledged, Billy Bean got offered a huge contract to come to Boston, Theo never got the respect that Beane did and Beane has never won a world title in Oakland, in fact he has never made a championship series. If you dont see why the Red Sox screwed up by not offering him after the World Series championship then you are a lost cause. Theo deserved the utmost respect from the front office and he never got it.
You say who cares what John Henry and Larry Lucchino think after offering him 1.5 million? well it is those guys who sign the check, it is those guys who decide if they want the guy or not, and when they first offered him 800,000 it let Theo know that they really did not appreciate all he did. You say a true Red Sox fan would do it for free, well do you know how much it cost to live in Boston? Do you know the work that goes into being a GM? Do you realize that Theo would literally work 15 hour days scouting prospects, looking at possible trades, looking at possible free agent aqusistions, trying to see what would benefit the Red Sox not only financially but also on the field, constantly being on the cell phone or in the office talking to scouts about prospects within the organization, coming out of the players draft in June after not sleeping more than 2-3 hours a day for weeks realzing that his decision was going to be crucial in buidling the right team for the future and finally rebuilding our farm systems in Pawtuckett, Portland, Willimgton and Lowell into some very productive teams with players taht will one day be superstars for the big league team? So to say you would do this job for free as a "true Red Sox" fan is laughable especially considering the cost of living in Boston, whether you choose to live in Beacon Hill or Back Bay it is not cheap. Taxes take a huge chunk out of any pay check and that is why Theo wanted what he did, you take the job for free and I gurantee you would not be living anywhere near Boston.
The fact that you are questioning Theo's loyalty to Boston is absurd, the guy has been going to games at Fenway since he was a kid, the guy knows what being a Red Sox fan is all about and he is doing what is best for him.
Also, show me one time where the front office truly showed their appreciation for the work Theo did?

In conclusion I seriously question your knowledge on this whole situation, you do not see the whole picture and Theo did, that is why he did what he did.

[farmerfan]

i know the front office didnt make up the line, "in theo we trust" i was saying thats a line of the credit theo is given. Come on, think about it, why does it matter if the front office doesnt give theo credit, who care what LL and JH think if they are giving him 1.5.......No credit,,,theo got no credit after 04 get real bro, have you ever been to Boston, if not youll see shirts with manny on them, big papi, and shirts with THEO on them. Hes not even a player, but hes respected so much hes on T-shirts. The mans a god in Boston. Yea, your right though, 1.5 is a "slap in the face". 1.5 for trading baseball players, for a team you have "loved" your whole life. Offer a true redsox fan a job like this they would do it for free, i know i would. I just dont see why a person who say hes so passionate for the sox, could turn down such a deal because a lack of privacy. The lack of privacy is the nature of the life of a person acossiated with bastball. So wheres he looking for a job, in? LA. How is la different from boston. Big city, tons of press, come on now. Lets get rea, If theo wants to stay in MLB, he better to get used to this lifestyle, becuase baseballs not going to change.


also here is a piece from a article written by Ian Browne of mlb.com


Henry was clear in taking the blame for Epstein's departure during Wednesday's news conference. During his radio interview a day later, he was more specific about some of his regrets.

Back in Spring Training, Epstein suggested to the Red Sox that they take care of his contract then so it wouldn't turn into a media-infested distraction after the season. Henry regrets not being more proactive in taking Epstein up on that suggestion. He knows that if he had, things might have wound up differently.

One of the things Henry is most upset about is all the media leaks that occurred during the negotiations.

"Had I acted six months ago or nine months ago to bring this to a resolution, maybe to force a resolution, to put those guys in a room and say, 'You're not leaving until we have a deal,' none of that would have come into play," said Henry.

At one point during Wednesday's press conference, Henry said, "Maybe I'm not fit to be the principal owner of the Boston Red Sox."



Even John Henry is taking blame for all taht happend and even suggested that he is not fit to be the owner of the Red Sox. Not something you want to hear from your principal owner.
But then again we all know Theo is a traitor who does not love the Red Sox :rolleyes:

[farmerfan]

i submitted the last one forgetting to finish my thought. I also believe the relationship between Luchino and Epstein fell apart. My guess would be that Luchinno still viewed Theo as the brilliant, young kid that worked as his intern, when in fact he had turned into one of the best GMs in the game. Alright, now I am done.


Could not agree more. He never got over the notion of Theo being his intern in Baltimore of that Law student in San Diego who was director of player personel. Thanks for the input on here.

Also, primetime, if it was all about the money to Theo, why did he turn down a job with a major law firm in California that would have more than doubled his pay while he was with the padres in 1999?

[Primetime536]

That comment right there makes me realize you dont have a clue what your talking about.
You think Theo's privacy in Boston would be the same compared to LA?
Like I said, Boston is a very small town, Theo can not go anywhere in Boston without being recognized, in a city like LA it would be much different. First, Dodger fans are not near as passionate as Boston fans, second LA covers a area about the size from Worcester,Mass to the Atlantic Ocean, it is literally 10x the size of Boston. Third, Theo grew up in Boston, he has loved the Red Sox his whole life, this is strictly a personal move and one that many would make. You also think the media in Boston and LA are the same? that is laughable, the Boston media is known to be one of the most critical in America, in fact when it comes to Baseball in this country you would be hard pressed to find a city with a media more difficult to deal with than in Boston,MA. The LA media could care less about baseball when compared to the Boston media, writers like Dan Shaughnessy, Bob Ryan, Michael Silverman and Jackie MacMullan in newspapers, to Glen Ordway, Dale Arnold and Michae Holley on WEEI 850AM, to NESN's Jerry Remy and Sam Horn. You will not find anyone in LA who will be as critical on the Dodgers as these guys are on the Red Sox.

You hit my point when you said you go to Boston and see shirts with Manny, Damon, Tek, Pappi and "In Theo We Trust" on them. Why? because the fans realize what he means to the organization, the front office does not. You sound like those fans from the mid 90's that did not see the fault in Roger but blamed Douquette, when in reality it was Roger that deserved to be balmed for his performace thus not bringing the Sox offering him a contract that he desired. Also, if you go to any of the boston websites, whether it be NESN, WEEI, BOSTON.COM, or sonsofsamhorn, you will see the general reaction is not to blame Theo but the front office.

You ask if I have ever been to Boston, well I have been going to Boston since the 80's, I could literally walk that city with my eyes closed, take away the politics and I think like a Bostonian. You calling Theo a traitor shows your lack of knowledge or understanding of what is going on here.

Like relraiderfan acknowledged, Billy Bean got offered a huge contract to come to Boston, Theo never got the respect that Beane did and Beane has never won a world title in Oakland, in fact he has never made a championship series. If you dont see why the Red Sox screwed up by not offering him after the World Series championship then you are a lost cause. Theo deserved the utmost respect from the front office and he never got it.
You say who cares what John Henry and Larry Lucchino think after offering him 1.5 million? well it is those guys who sign the check, it is those guys who decide if they want the guy or not, and when they first offered him 800,000 it let Theo know that they really did not appreciate all he did. You say a true Red Sox fan would do it for free, well do you know how much it cost to live in Boston? Do you know the work that goes into being a GM? Do you realize that Theo would literally work 15 hour days scouting prospects, looking at possible trades, looking at possible free agent aqusistions, trying to see what would benefit the Red Sox not only financially but also on the field, constantly being on the cell phone or in the office talking to scouts about prospects within the organization, coming out of the players draft in June after not sleeping more than 2-3 hours a day for weeks realzing that his decision was going to be crucial in buidling the right team for the future and finally rebuilding our farm systems in Pawtuckett, Portland, Willimgton and Lowell into some very productive teams with players taht will one day be superstars for the big league team? So to say you would do this job for free as a "true Red Sox" fan is laughable especially considering the cost of living in Boston, whether you choose to live in Beacon Hill or Back Bay it is not cheap. Taxes take a huge chunk out of any pay check and that is why Theo wanted what he did, you take the job for free and I gurantee you would not be living anywhere near Boston.
The fact that you are questioning Theo's loyalty to Boston is absurd, the guy has been going to games at Fenway since he was a kid, the guy knows what being a Red Sox fan is all about and he is doing what is best for him.
Also, show me one time where the front office truly showed their appreciation for the work Theo did?

In conclusion I seriously question your knowledge on this whole situation, you do not see the whole picture and Theo did, that is why he did what he did.
i dont have a clue what i am talking about? Can a redsox fan not complain about the current state of the team? Surly as a redsox fan, you sould know perfectly well of events such as this. I talk from what i truly believe and i dont have a clue. Who the hell are you to decide wheather i have a clue what i am talking about. What i know is this, theo is the best GM in baseball. Turned the farm system totally around for starters, traded for CS, oh and made the best trade in the history of the redsox happen, Garciaparra for OC. The mans a baseball genius. His acomplishments are amazing considering hes so young........This being said i still find it hard to belive a "true" redsox fan would reject a 1.5 mil. offer. 1.5 mil. say that. What would you do for 1.5???Spend 15 hours a day doing something you love, for a team you "love"??? I would for 1.5.....God the way you talk about 1.5 mil. you would think your talking about pocket change.

Ok, your right i was out of line comparing LA media to bostons, i know. But still, COME ON. This is major league baseball. Privacy will never be totally obtained while in the game. LA has great fans , trust me they will not give him his privacy.

Would you be the GM for the redsox for 1.5 mil?

Oh, and about your statement, "i dont know what im talking about", get real. Please, i know as much about the redsox as anyone you have ever met. Dont ever mention my name with lack of knowledge about the redsox. I mean **** who are you, are you ted williams, what makes you know more. Your so pathetic to say i dont know what im talking about, what the hell do you, i said one stupid comment(when i compared the two medias). Your so unbeivably, rediculously stupid, when you talk about 1.5 mil being so "little". Its 1.5 mil for a person who never steps on the diamond..

Oh, and by the way, while responding to this, please get creative and tell me im bad at spelling, i know i am.

[wide-e-wide]

Prime...don't do it bro...

Farmer loves the Red Sox...and he knows what he's talking about...

If he didn't...don't you think I would be on here helping you out?

He is right....

[southlake thug]

Yeah Farmer is deff. right on this. True, 1.5 mil is alot for an average person, but this circumstance is different. Would Tiger Woods accept a 1.5 million contract with NIKE? No. He would expect more becasue he is the best, and he expects to be getting paid more then the average person. It is simple, Primetime- you have dug yourself into a hole that you can't get out of.

[Primetime536]

Prime...don't do it bro...

Farmer loves the Red Sox...and he knows what he's talking about...

If he didn't...don't you think I would be on here helping you out?

He is right....
I never said he didnt know what he was talking about, i love the sox as well, and there is no right or wrong in an OPINION. Have i not proved i know what im talking about yet?

[Primetime536]

Yeah Farmer is deff. right on this. True, 1.5 mil is alot for an average person, but this circumstance is different. Would Tiger Woods accept a 1.5 million contract with NIKE? No. He would expect more becasue he is the best, and he expects to be getting paid more then the average person. It is simple, Primetime- you have dug yourself into a hole that you can't get out of.
ohh okk, i see how it is, i have dug myself in a hole, well im not sure how figure im in a hole. I gave a true redsox fans opinion, i said what i feal, next time what should i do? Go to espn.com and steal an arguement. Hell no....oh and thug did you just compare tiger woods and theo making 1.5 mil. the 1.5 would be comparable to TWs agent, like i said before theo DOESNT step on the diamond.

[wide-e-wide]

I respect your opinion Prime...
and I give you even more respect for being a die hard fan...
?
BUT-------------

How how die hard can you be?
since 94?
c'mon dawg...farmer's got you on this one.

[farmerfan]

i dont have a clue what i am talking about? Can a redsox fan not complain about the current state of the team? Surly as a redsox fan, you sould know perfectly well of events such as this. I talk from what i truly believe and i dont have a clue. Who the hell are you to decide wheather i have a clue what i am talking about. What i know is this, theo is the best GM in baseball. Turned the farm system totally around for starters, traded for CS, oh and made the best trade in the history of the redsox happen, Garciaparra for OC. The mans a baseball genius. His acomplishments are amazing considering hes so young........This being said i still find it hard to belive a "true" redsox fan would reject a 1.5 mil. offer. 1.5 mil. say that. What would you do for 1.5???Spend 15 hours a day doing something you love, for a team you "love"??? I would for 1.5.....God the way you talk about 1.5 mil. you would think your talking about pocket change.

Ok, your right i was out of line comparing LA media to bostons, i know. But still, COME ON. This is major league baseball. Privacy will never be totally obtained while in the game. LA has great fans , trust me they will not give him his privacy.

Would you be the GM for the redsox for 1.5 mil?

Oh, and about your statement, "i dont know what im talking about", get real. Please, i know as much about the redsox as anyone you have ever met. Dont ever mention my name with lack of knowledge about the redsox. I mean **** who are you, are you ted williams, what makes you know more. Your so pathetic to say i dont know what im talking about, what the hell do you, i said one stupid comment(when i compared the two medias). Your so unbeivably, rediculously stupid, when you talk about 1.5 mil being so "little". Its 1.5 mil for a person who never steps on the diamond..

Oh, and by the way, while responding to this, please get creative and tell me im bad at spelling, i know i am.

All the proof I need in saying you dont know what you are talking about is in your statements. You think like a youngster who has no sense of the "Big" picture. Things that you have stated make me question your knowledge on this topic. I never said you didnt know anything about the Red Sox, what I did say was on this topic your knowledge or ability to think outside of the box is not there. I love how you tell me you know so much about the Red Sox and get so defensive over me saying I dont trhink you lack knowledge on this topic, then you come back and call me "rediculously stupid" why you getting so defensive? usually when you have to result in name calling it means you dont have anything to debate with, and no I do not think I am the splendid splinter, but Dwight Evans I am.


I also question what you say was the best trade in team history, in sending Nomar to the Cubs while aquiring Cabrea from the Expos, I think a trade made before the 2004 season that brought in Curt Schilling for the likes of Casey Fossum and a few minor league prospects. That trade was way bigger than the Nomar trade.

The fact that you are passionate about this is great, I am very passionate and upset that Theo left. However I see Theo doing what he had to do, when a GM of the ny yankees gets a extension of 2+ million a year, and the Red Sox counter that offer by offering him 800,000, then that is why he left. Sure they bumped it up to 1.5 million but the inital offer is what made Theo realize this ownership was not going to workout.

You also think this is the way Red Sox fans are thinking, well if you do, then you have another thing coming. Trust me, I have been to enough games at Fenway, in enough bars in Boston, talked to enough taxi drivers in Boston, read enough newspapers in Hotel lobbies of Boston and waited in many subway stations in Boston while talking to plenty of Red Sox fan's to know that Theo is not the one to blame. This ownership is what screwed up.

I conclude that you are entitled to your opinions, and that is totally fine. I just have a hard time dealing with someone who looks at Theo and does not see the "WHOLE" picture, it wasnt about the 1.5 they offered last sunday, it was about the 1.5 they didnt offer when negotiations began after the season. It was also about not wanting to extend the deal after the 2004 world series championships. If you ever go to Boston, I challenge you to walk into a bar, or walk into a subway station and bring this up to anyone in Boston and then blame Theo and listen to what they tell you, it wont sound like anything that you are stating.

[farmerfan]

Would you be the GM for the redsox for 1.5 mil?

Oh, and by the way, while responding to this, please get creative and tell me im bad at spelling, i know i am.


I dont know what that last line means. I am one that would never question anyones spelling or grammar. considering that mine is terrible.

As for being GM of the Sox for 1.5, well to be perfectly honest with you, if offered that kind of money I would turn it down, only because I do not have the credentials to be a GM.

If I did have the credentials, I would have done the same thing Teho did considering the way he has been treated over the last year by this front office.

[farmerfan]

ohh okk, i see how it is, i have dug myself in a hole, well im not sure how figure im in a hole. I gave a true redsox fans opinion, i said what i feal, next time what should i do? Go to espn.com and steal an arguement. Hell no....oh and thug did you just compare tiger woods and theo making 1.5 mil. the 1.5 would be comparable to TWs agent, like i said before theo DOESNT step on the diamond.

I also have given a true Red Sox fans opinion who has sat in the bars of Boston, rode the subways, sat in the bleachers at Fenway, conversed with the locals along Boylston Street and Mass ave, what I am saying and know is what most Red Sox fans in New England are thinking. If you would like go to www.sonsofsamhorn.com, and you will see the general reaction to this. Before you go on thinking I get my arguments from them, tonight was the first time I have ever read this forum.

Theo does not step on the diamond, but he is responsible for putting the product on the field that does step on the diamond. He is also responsible for the performance of the team, it is his job to put a winner on the field. He brought a first in Red Sox history, the 2003-2005 clubs were the 1st clubs in Sox history to make the post-season 3 straight years. He put a team on the field that advanced to the championship series and were 5 outs away from a pennant, he then won a pennant and a world title, he then got back to the playoffs with a mediocre and depleated pitching staff. So he might not step out on the field, but the winning team that does step out on the field is a reflection of Theo. He was the one who kept Manny happy, he brought in Ortiz, Schilling, Renteria, Olerud and was able to resign Veritek and many other small things that us fans do not notice.
So, he might not step out on the field, but the work he has done to go along with the results of this organization over the last 3 years gave him the right to name his price as well as a extension immidately after the 2004 world title.

[Primetime536]

All the proof I need in saying you dont know what you are talking about is in your statements. You think like a youngster who has no sense of the "Big" picture. Things that you have stated make me question your knowledge on this topic. I never said you didnt know anything about the Red Sox, what I did say was on this topic your knowledge or ability to think outside of the box is not there. I love how you tell me you know so much about the Red Sox and get so defensive over me saying I dont trhink you lack knowledge on this topic, then you come back and call me "rediculously stupid" why you getting so defensive? usually when you have to result in name calling it means you dont have anything to debate with, and no I do not think I am the splendid splinter, but Dwight Evans I am.


I also question what you say was the best trade in team history, in sending Nomar to the Cubs while aquiring Cabrea from the Expos, I think a trade made before the 2004 season that brought in Curt Schilling for the likes of Casey Fossum and a few minor league prospects. That trade was way bigger than the Nomar trade.

The fact that you are passionate about this is great, I am very passionate and upset that Theo left. However I see Theo doing what he had to do, when a GM of the ny yankees gets a extension of 2+ million a year, and the Red Sox counter that offer by offering him 800,000, then that is why he left. Sure they bumped it up to 1.5 million but the inital offer is what made Theo realize this ownership was not going to workout.

You also think this is the way Red Sox fans are thinking, well if you do, then you have another thing coming. Trust me, I have been to enough games at Fenway, in enough bars in Boston, talked to enough taxi drivers in Boston, read enough newspapers in Hotel lobbies of Boston and waited in many subway stations in Boston while talking to plenty of Red Sox fan's to know that Theo is not the one to blame. This ownership is what screwed up.

I conclude that you are entitled to your opinions, and that is totally fine. I just have a hard time dealing with someone who looks at Theo and does not see the "WHOLE" picture, it wasnt about the 1.5 they offered last sunday, it was about the 1.5 they didnt offer when negotiations began after the season. It was also about not wanting to extend the deal after the 2004 world series championships. If you ever go to Boston, I challenge you to walk into a bar, or walk into a subway station and bring this up to anyone in Boston and then blame Theo and listen to what they tell you, it wont sound like anything that you are stating.
for starters, I will will stick with my opinion about the OC being the best trade in redsox history...granted, CS may of been a bigger piece of the redsox team. However, at the time of the trade, nomar was a GOD in boston. Most loved player sence ted W.. And at the time the red sox were struggling to be over .500. Theo was very well aware what his rep. would be in Boston if the trade was a failure. BUuuutttt Theo makes the trade, which turns the season around, andd i think you know the rest..

Ok,,,like i said before, you KEEP bringing up the opinions of other redsox fans. Why do you care what they think? Its YOUR opinion. Oh, and my agresive comments may of been unessisary, but i think i stated a strong opinion and backed it up well in that post. Clearly not being agressive because i had nothing else to say.

And about the "big" picture. I see it. I love the fact, that the sox are on a 1 years drought of the WS, instead of a 88 year. But i still dont understand why the negeotitions, were so poor. Was it the front office, Probally. But, still,,,,,,1.5 mil.. 1.5 mil. more that 99% of americans for a baseball job. A baseball job that, like i said before, doesnt require stepping on the field. I dont care how hard a job is, for 1.5 mil. a "TRUE" redsox fan would accept the offer.

[farmerfan]

for starters, I will will stick with my opinion about the OC being the best trade in redsox history...granted, CS may of been a bigger piece of the redsox team. However, at the time of the trade, nomar was a GOD in boston. Most loved player sence ted W.. And at the time the red sox were struggling to be over .500. Theo was very well aware what his rep. would be in Boston if the trade was a failure. BUuuutttt Theo makes the trade, which turns the season around, andd i think you know the rest..

Ok,,,like i said before, you KEEP bringing up the opinions of other redsox fans. Why do you care what they think? Its YOUR opinion. Oh, and my agresive comments may of been unessisary, but i think i stated a strong opinion and backed it up well in that post. Clearly not being agressive because i had nothing else to say.

And about the "big" picture. I see it. I love the fact, that the sox are on a 1 years drought of the WS, instead of a 88 year. But i still dont understand why the negeotitions, were so poor. Was it the front office, Probally. But, still,,,,,,1.5 mil.. 1.5 mil. more that 99% of americans for a baseball job. A baseball job that, like i said before, doesnt require stepping on the field. I dont care how hard a job is, for 1.5 mil. a "TRUE" redsox fan would accept the offer.


I dont think you backed up your opinion well at all, only because you failed to realize the reasoning behind Theo leaving. You have no decisive evidence or proof to back up your opinion and your arguments are weak. Usually when you have a argument you need proof to back it up and you have presented nothing of the sort. I will say this for the last time, if you dont get it now you never will. Theo was offered 1.5 million after he denied a offer of 800,000, the front office showed him they did not appreciate him or his efforts, the 1.5 mil was in a desperate move by the office after they realized they did not control Theo like they thought they could.

You also ask why I keep brining up other Red Sox opinions, well a while back ago you stated that he is a traitor, you stated that Boston fans were not happy with him. I jumped on that and told you that is not the case, that the fans and 99.9% of Red Sox fans accross Red Sox nation do not see it the way you do, and that your thoughts and opinions are blaming the wrong person. It is ok to have a opinion, but when the facts show that your opinion is wrong, it is time to change the tune of what you are saying. Especially when you have done nothing to back up your argument.

You say that the Nomar trade was the best in history, many think it was up there, and let me ask you this, if it was the best in team history then considering how it worked out, shouldnt JH and LL have given Theo his extension after the world title? you dont even know it but you are helping prove my point more and more.
Now I think it was one of the best deals Theo ever did, but it also was a deal that had to be done. Nomar had missed most of the 1st half of the season, if you remember that epic 12 inning game in New York in July of 2004, Nomar was on the bench by himself while the rest of the team was at the edge of the dugout into the ball game, Nomar told Francona that he was unable to play because his achillies was sore, while Jeter is going out and making heroic catches throwing his body into the second row while running full speed to catch a foul ball. The fact that they traded Nomar was huge, but it also was something that had to be done, do you trade Nomar and get a health player or do you keep him and let him stay on the bench while he clearly was not into playing. He also was a free agent at the end of that year and was a newly married man, he is from the West coast, his wife Mia Hamm is from the west coast and wanted to live out there. The speculation was that Nomar would not return to Boston anyways. He had turned down a contract extension in 2003 which told Theo and the front office that he was not going to re-sign in Boston, so do you trade while you can get something out of him, or do you keep him?
The Schilling trade was more valuable because of what we lost to get him, we lost no one of importance to gain a guy who led us not only to a pennant but a world title.

I dont think you see the big picture, because if you did, you would realize that Theo did exactly what he had to do. You dont understand why the negotiations were so poor because they are not in a trivia book. You dont understand why the negotiations were so poor because you did not realize that Theo would have stayed in Boston, but not one time did JH or LL listen to him and sit down with him before the 2005 season or during it to work out a contract extension. You dont realize why the negotiations were so poor because you dont see that when they did offer him 1.5 million is was the day before his contract expired and this was after they ignored is inital request and offered him 800,000 or that LL sent out a leak to the Boston globe and had a article run in the paper basicly saying we control Theo and have worked out a deal before Theo ever agreed to it. You dont understand the minute details that go on between the front office and that have been between LL and Theo for the last 3 years. Being a idol in a city does not mean you should stay, especially when you have a front office that works the way these two clowns do. They are allowing Theo to leave and before to long these two clowns will do to Boston what they did to Florida and San Diego and we will be hurting for help soon.

[southlake thug]

This has become one of the classic threads I think. One of the best arguements/debates in a while.

[farmerfan]

However, at the time of the trade, nomar was a GOD in boston. Most loved player sence ted W.. And at the time the red sox were struggling to be over .500. Theo was very well aware what his rep. would be in Boston if the trade was a failure. BUuuutttt Theo makes the trade, which turns the season around, andd i think you know the rest..
.

You think Nomar was the most popular player since Teddy ballgame? does the name Yastrzemski ring a bell? The Yaz was a bit more popular in Boston than Nomar. Also, Dwight (Dewey) Evans was pretty popular as well, sure Nomar was a idol in Boston, but to say he was the most popular player in team history since Teddy ballgame is a bit absurd.

[farmerfan]

This has become one of the classic threads I think. One of the best arguements/debates in a while.

thanks
I love talking Red Sox, and anything baseball. I just dont think prime understands much of what is going on here.

[Primetime536]

You think Nomar was the most popular player since Teddy ballgame? does the name Yastrzemski ring a bell? The Yaz was a bit more popular in Boston than Nomar. Also, Dwight (Dewey) Evans was pretty popular as well, sure Nomar was a idol in Boston, but to say he was the most popular player in team history since Teddy ballgame is a bit absurd.
absurd, why is that absurd? Nomar, was equally popular in boston, as dwight and yaz...I think its kind of stupid to say that statements absurd. Nomar was basiclly worshiped and theo was bashed relentlessly when he did the nomar trade, at first.

[Primetime536]

I dont think you backed up your opinion well at all, only because you failed to realize the reasoning behind Theo leaving. You have no decisive evidence or proof to back up your opinion and your arguments are weak. Usually when you have a argument you need proof to back it up and you have presented nothing of the sort. I will say this for the last time, if you dont get it now you never will. Theo was offered 1.5 million after he denied a offer of 800,000, the front office showed him they did not appreciate him or his efforts, the 1.5 mil was in a desperate move by the office after they realized they did not control Theo like they thought they could.

You also ask why I keep brining up other Red Sox opinions, well a while back ago you stated that he is a traitor, you stated that Boston fans were not happy with him. I jumped on that and told you that is not the case, that the fans and 99.9% of Red Sox fans accross Red Sox nation do not see it the way you do, and that your thoughts and opinions are blaming the wrong person. It is ok to have a opinion, but when the facts show that your opinion is wrong, it is time to change the tune of what you are saying. Especially when you have done nothing to back up your argument.

You say that the Nomar trade was the best in history, many think it was up there, and let me ask you this, if it was the best in team history then considering how it worked out, shouldnt JH and LL have given Theo his extension after the world title? you dont even know it but you are helping prove my point more and more.
Now I think it was one of the best deals Theo ever did, but it also was a deal that had to be done. Nomar had missed most of the 1st half of the season, if you remember that epic 12 inning game in New York in July of 2004, Nomar was on the bench by himself while the rest of the team was at the edge of the dugout into the ball game, Nomar told Francona that he was unable to play because his achillies was sore, while Jeter is going out and making heroic catches throwing his body into the second row while running full speed to catch a foul ball. The fact that they traded Nomar was huge, but it also was something that had to be done, do you trade Nomar and get a health player or do you keep him and let him stay on the bench while he clearly was not into playing. He also was a free agent at the end of that year and was a newly married man, he is from the West coast, his wife Mia Hamm is from the west coast and wanted to live out there. The speculation was that Nomar would not return to Boston anyways. He had turned down a contract extension in 2003 which told Theo and the front office that he was not going to re-sign in Boston, so do you trade while you can get something out of him, or do you keep him?
The Schilling trade was more valuable because of what we lost to get him, we lost no one of importance to gain a guy who led us not only to a pennant but a world title.

I dont think you see the big picture, because if you did, you would realize that Theo did exactly what he had to do. You dont understand why the negotiations were so poor because they are not in a trivia book. You dont understand why the negotiations were so poor because you did not realize that Theo would have stayed in Boston, but not one time did JH or LL listen to him and sit down with him before the 2005 season or during it to work out a contract extension. You dont realize why the negotiations were so poor because you dont see that when they did offer him 1.5 million is was the day before his contract expired and this was after they ignored is inital request and offered him 800,000 or that LL sent out a leak to the Boston globe and had a article run in the paper basicly saying we control Theo and have worked out a deal before Theo ever agreed to it. You dont understand the minute details that go on between the front office and that have been between LL and Theo for the last 3 years. Being a idol in a city does not mean you should stay, especially when you have a front office that works the way these two clowns do. They are allowing Theo to leave and before to long these two clowns will do to Boston what they did to Florida and San Diego and we will be hurting for help soon.
Ok, first off, i dont see why you are telling all this about nomar. How do you know Nomar wasnt going to resign anyways? Did he not say he wanted to be a Redsox his entire career? Well, i guese his word may not of ment anything but, he still may of resigned. But I still dont understand why you are telling me all these facts about why it was a good trade. Are you trying to take away from this brillant trade? Nearly every GM in baseball wouldnt even consider doing this trade. Theo basiclly pulled this trade out of nowhere...who else woulda thought of this trade. And you try to take away from it? Would the Redsox of won the world series without this trade? NO......Up till the point of this trade, like i said before, the Sox were struggling to stay a few games over .500, after the trade the redsox went something like 55-16. And unbelievable post-Trade deadline record. Again i repeat myself, how the hell did theo think of this trade?
On the other hand, this CS deal........CS, was he the missing peice to a decent 03 staff? Yes he was, with him the redsox became World series favorites in the preseason. Great deal. But, who wouldnt of done this deal? This is one of those fantasy deals Gms dream about. A proven vet. for a unproven kid. Offers like these are talked about all the time, almost every time nothing goes down. In this case Theo, somehow managed to get Arizona to buy in to cassey fossum, how? Who knows, but it happned. The risk Theo took in this trade was very low. Cassey Fossum, struggled in his 2 seasons with the sox, and i dont think anyone, with the exception of AR, saw him going anywhere....Ok, that being said, i would say a trade where theo put his future with the Redsox on the line, trading a Boston icon, for a OC, who at the time was hitting a mere .220 and a DM whos career was on the decline, would easily get the edge over a no-brainer trade involving the actuation
of a first ballot hall of famer.

Me saying all this of theos accomplishments, is not baking up your point, if you look i said theos time with the Redsox, displayed his great GM skills.

Ok,if you cant comprehend what i am saying i will repeat:


My opinion: If Theo was a TRUE redsox fan he would not of left boston over privacy, and 1.5 mil

Backing my opinion up: 1.5 mil. when was 1.5 mil. not alot for a GM? Ok Cashmen was offered more, but who does he work for, the Yankees. The yankees, the same team whos left side of the infields payed more the entire Tampa bay devil rays. The yankees, same team who can afford any player they want. Yes the Redsox are also rich, but not when comparing to the yankees. His privacy in boston may of been terrible. Ok im sure it was. Im sure where ever he goes his level of privacy will increas. But like i said, this is Major league baseball. The nature of the game brings a lack of privacy. He will always be recognized at restaurants and on the streets. He will never be just another person, in the eyes of the fans. Okk,,and about JH and LL, these two men may of showed a lack of respect for theo when not negotiating earlier, ok they screwed up. But, this is a buissness right? You dont offer straight up 1.5 mil. you offer 800,000 raise the offer from there. The second offer of 1.5 should of been plenty for a "true" redsox fan. A true redsox fan would not only of been payed by with 1.5 but with the comfort of knowing he controls the redsox. He should of been payed with knowing he was the best guy to be the gm of the redsox. Where ever he goes now, he wont have the pocket of the Redsox, and im sure he wont have the talent the sox have.

The big picture for me: Im a redsox fan, being a redsox fan i am deeply depressed that theo will not be returning. The big picture for me is the future sox teams will not be as good as they would of been if Theo were the Gm

The big picture for Theo:Money, he went for the money, as Roger clemens did, and as mo vaughn did. Money is a bigger priority to theo than winning is.
Oh, and i guese privacy....I really dont see how his privacy was leaked out, i mean ya i know, LL told the press he was already signed but is that personal? I guese.... and i dont remember anything about theos personal life being published in the media??

And if hes worried about being bashed in the Herald, I dont think he would be bashed too harshly, i mean look what hes done, and look at his level of GM skills. The mans a GM guru, im sure he wouldnt screw up enough to have Bostonians turn on him.

[Primetime536]

thanks
I love talking Red Sox, and anything baseball. I just dont think prime understands much of what is going on here.
Well, maybe not, what i do understand though is, theo turned down a 1.5 mil. deal because of privacy. And i understand that 1.5 is alot for a Gm

[farmerfan]

absurd, why is that absurd? Nomar, was equally popular in boston, as dwight and yaz...I think its kind of stupid to say that statements absurd. Nomar was basiclly worshiped and theo was bashed relentlessly when he did the nomar trade, at first.

Nomar was not equally guarded in Boston as the Yaz? The Yaz was the symbol of Boston baseball from 67-83. The Yaz is still remembered today along the lines of Ted Williams, when you talk Red Sox there are a few names that immidately pop into your mind, Teddy Ballgame, The Yaz and Johnny Pesky. Nomar is not in those guys league.

At the time Nomar played, he was considered Mr Boston, but so was Roger, and we saw where that got Roger. So no its not stupid to say it was absurd to say Nomar was the most popular player in Boston since Ted Williams. Players that stick out in my mind that were regarded as much as Nomar during their playing days would be, Wade Boggs, Luis Tiant, Dwight Evans, Mike Greenwell and Jim Rice.
Was Nomar a icon when he played? yes, was he the most popular player since Ted Williams, no.

[farmerfan]

Ok, first off, i dont see why you are telling all this about nomar. How do you know Nomar wasnt going to resign anyways? Did he not say he wanted to be a Redsox his entire career? Well, i guese his word may not of ment anything but, he still may of resigned. But I still dont understand why you are telling me all these facts about why it was a good trade. Are you trying to take away from this brillant trade? Nearly every GM in baseball wouldnt even consider doing this trade. Theo basiclly pulled this trade out of nowhere...who else woulda thought of this trade. And you try to take away from it? Would the Redsox of won the world series without this trade? NO......Up till the point of this trade, like i said before, the Sox were struggling to stay a few games over .500, after the trade the redsox went something like 55-16. And unbelievable post-Trade deadline record. Again i repeat myself, how the hell did theo think of this trade?
On the other hand, this CS deal........CS, was he the missing peice to a decent 03 staff? Yes he was, with him the redsox became World series favorites in the preseason. Great deal. But, who wouldnt of done this deal? This is one of those fantasy deals Gms dream about. A proven vet. for a unproven kid. Offers like these are talked about all the time, almost every time nothing goes down. In this case Theo, somehow managed to get Arizona to buy in to cassey fossum, how? Who knows, but it happned. The risk Theo took in this trade was very low. Cassey Fossum, struggled in his 2 seasons with the sox, and i dont think anyone, with the exception of AR, saw him going anywhere....Ok, that being said, i would say a trade where theo put his future with the Redsox on the line, trading a Boston icon, for a OC, who at the time was hitting a mere .220 and a DM whos career was on the decline, would easily get the edge over a no-brainer trade involving the actuation
of a first ballot hall of famer.

Me saying all this of theos accomplishments, is not baking up your point, if you look i said theos time with the Redsox, displayed his great GM skills.

Ok,if you cant comprehend what i am saying i will repeat:


My opinion: If Theo was a TRUE redsox fan he would not of left boston over privacy, and 1.5 mil

Backing my opinion up: 1.5 mil. when was 1.5 mil. not alot for a GM? Ok Cashmen was offered more, but who does he work for, the Yankees. The yankees, the same team whos left side of the infields payed more the entire Tampa bay devil rays. The yankees, same team who can afford any player they want. Yes the Redsox are also rich, but not when comparing to the yankees. His privacy in boston may of been terrible. Ok im sure it was. Im sure where ever he goes his level of privacy will increas. But like i said, this is Major league baseball. The nature of the game brings a lack of privacy. He will always be recognized at restaurants and on the streets. He will never be just another person, in the eyes of the fans. Okk,,and about JH and LL, these two men may of showed a lack of respect for theo when not negotiating earlier, ok they screwed up. But, this is a buissness right? You dont offer straight up 1.5 mil. you offer 800,000 raise the offer from there. The second offer of 1.5 should of been plenty for a "true" redsox fan. A true redsox fan would not only of been payed by with 1.5 but with the comfort of knowing he controls the redsox. He should of been payed with knowing he was the best guy to be the gm of the redsox. Where ever he goes now, he wont have the pocket of the Redsox, and im sure he wont have the talent the sox have.

The big picture for me: Im a redsox fan, being a redsox fan i am deeply depressed that theo will not be returning. The big picture for me is the future sox teams will not be as good as they would of been if Theo were the Gm

The big picture for Theo:Money, he went for the money, as Roger clemens did, and as mo vaughn did. Money is a bigger priority to theo than winning is.
Oh, and i guese privacy....I really dont see how his privacy was leaked out, i mean ya i know, LL told the press he was already signed but is that personal? I guese.... and i dont remember anything about theos personal life being published in the media??

And if hes worried about being bashed in the Herald, I dont think he would be bashed too harshly, i mean look what hes done, and look at his level of GM skills. The mans a GM guru, im sure he wouldnt screw up enough to have Bostonians turn on him.

To start off:
The reason I told you all the things about Nomar was to back up my argument about why his trade was not as good as the Schilling trade. Nomar was not productive during the 2004 season, he spent most of the 1st half on the DL, he complained about soreness and thus sat out a game in NY that went extra innings, when approached by Tito to play, he told him he didtn want to. This while Derek Jeter is laying his body on the line making catches in the 2nd row of a extra inning regular season game. When Nomar was seen sitting on the bench while the rest of his team was up on the edge of the dugout and into the game, he sent a sign that Nomar no longer wanted to be in Boston.

How do I know Nomar wasnt going to resign? during the 2003 season, Nomar's agent was approached with a 4 year 60 million dollar contract extension, that is 15 million a year which would have put him among the top 5 highest paid players in the game, what did Nomar do? he rejected the offer. That right there sent a sign that Nomar was not going to resign with the Sox. Usually when offered a contract that high and you deny it, it means you are not going to resign.

You also say the Schilling deal was somethign that every GM would have done, but trading Nomar took guts? well when you are fighting for a world title and one of your star players is going through the motions like Nomar was, and was about to be a free agent at the end of the year, you get something out of him while you can, especially when he was not playing everyday. Every GM in baseball would have traded Nomar under the circumstances that Boston was in. Once again the reason im giving you all the facts about Nomar is to back up my argument that it had to be done, any GM in baseball who does not make that trade would be a fool, sure it took guts trading Nomar, but it had to be done.
In fact to share a story with you, I was sitting in a Bar in Boston in June of 2004, I was just talking sports withthe bartender, when these guys sitting next to me heard me talking they immidately asked where I was from, I told them Texas and they were amazed at how much I knew about the Sox, after explaining my situation to them they then realized I have been going to Boston for years and understood the past and present very well. Well to make a long story shot, we immidately got into talking about Nomar and to sume up our converstation they wanted Nomar traded, during taht week I was in Boston, It was amongst the general consensus to trade Nomar while we could get something out of him. So you thinking that it took guts to trade Nomar is not as valid as you might think.
The trade was also to give our defense a boost, we were ranked dead last in the AL in fielding percentage at the time of the trade, all we did was bring in a solid first basemen and a solid SS. Once again further proof of why this trade had to be done.

Yes you are making my point for me, with what Theo was able to do for this team, showed why he deserved the utmost respect and for the front office to negotiate and get his contract done before October 31st, they did not.

Your opinion of Theo leaving over privacy and the 1.5 is not a very solid one. You need to back it up more, when you first started posting you said how could privacy be a issue, now all the sudden you are saying that privacy was a issue?
It was a issue, but not the deciding one, the 1.5 million was a issue after the offer of 800,000, if you dont see why they should have met whatever Theo's needs were then like I have said you are a lost cause and that is why I question how much you actually know about this whole deal.

You think money was the deciding issue, well it was also the notion of not being respected by the men who ultimately run this organization. They had plenty of chances to resign Theo, they waited till the last minute, they did not offer him what he desired, when they did offer him what he wanted, LL leaked it out to the Globe and said a deal was done, thus brining many media outlets to say a deal had been struck, well the only one who did not know Theo agreed to a new deal was Theo. You ask how that is a big deal, well young lad, you have a long way to go my friend. What that says is that Theo is our puppy, we control him and what we offered he has taken. Theo never agreed to it but LL thought he did. Theo was still upset having to wait all year to know if his deal was going to be worked out, Theo never got the appreciation for his hard work from the front office that he deserved. He knew it and why work for men who dont appreciate you?

You are also wrong to question him being a true fan or not, just because he was looking out for himself does not make him any less of a fan You have a lot of nerve to question Theo' loyalty to the Boston Red Sox. His work and dedication over the last three years deserved for a new deal to be workd out immidately following the world title and at the latest spring training 2005.

Being bashed in the Boston hearld was not a big deal, considering that the Boston Globe is a much bigger newspaper than the Hearld and that many of the most porminent sports writers in NE as well as the most critical all hail from the Globe.

My conlusion:
You are way misinformed by thinking money was the deciding factor.
You are way misinformed by not realizing that the Nomar trade had to be done and it was not as gutsy as you think.
You are way out of your league in this, you have gone back on many things you have once said and have not proven any of your arguments, if you have a opinion that is fine, but back it up, and you have not backed it up with any facts.

[farmerfan]

Well, maybe not, what i do understand though is, theo turned down a 1.5 mil. deal because of privacy. And i understand that 1.5 is alot for a Gm

But earlier you said how could privacy be a issue?

I dont do this often, but Prime you are dead, I got you on this and as thug said, you are in a hole that you cant dig yourself out of.

[BronxBomber21]

In my opinion, the greatest trade the Redsox ever made would be the 1920 trade of the Bambino, But hey thats just me! Great read by the way.

[farmerfan]

In my opinion, the greatest trade the Redsox ever made would be the 1920 trade of the Bambino, But hey thats just me! Great read by the way.

haha
even i can smile at that one. Thats good.
Welcome to the board
By the way, Yankees Suck; Jeter Swallows

[BronxBomber21]

Hey we can't all have short stops like Jeter, So I understand the frustration. Even you were hailing his Heroics in the 12th inning stretch when he went diving into the stands, while your sox Sat watching in denail, anyway thanks for the hospitality, and look forward to future discussions

[farmerfan]

Hey we can't all have short stops like Jeter, So I understand the frustration. Even you were hailing his Heroics in the 12th inning stretch when he went diving into the stands, while your sox Sat watching in denail, anyway thanks for the hospitality, and look forward to future discussions


Still doesnt take away from the totally suckiness of what is the ny yankees. Baseball season should be fun, yankees suck.

[farmerfan]

Hey we can't all have short stops like Jeter, So I understand the frustration. Even you were hailing his Heroics in the 12th inning stretch when he went diving into the stands, while your sox Sat watching in denail, anyway thanks for the hospitality, and look forward to future discussions

what is the 12th inning stretch?

[BronxBomber21]

Hey, We were CLEARLY American League East Champs this year, So you just get use to going back to "Hey we'll get um next year". Its gonna be that way for a long time. Here we go now Yanks hip hip!

[farmerfan]

Hey, We were CLEARLY American League East Champs this year, So you just get use to going back to "Hey we'll get um next year". Its gonna be that way for a long time. Here we go now Yanks hip hip!

and what did that get ya'll?
By the way yankee boy, start your own thread and dont hijack this one, I am having to much fun at primes expense for this to come to a end right now.

[Primetime536]

and what did that get ya'll?
By the way yankee boy, start your own thread and dont hijack this one, I am having to much fun at primes expense for this to come to a end right now.
at my espense? Haa, ok dawg, whatever.

"My conlusion:
You are way misinformed by thinking money was the deciding factor.
You are way misinformed by not realizing that the Nomar trade had to be done and it was not as gutsy as you think.
You are way out of your league in this, you have gone back on many things you have once said and have not proven any of your arguments, if you have a opinion that is fine, but back it up, and you have not backed it up with any facts.
"
Ok, first off you make it seem like I was the one who brought up money, YOU DID
Second, The nomar trade was way more of a risk than the CS deal, and I garentee even you had your doubts when theo first made this deal, well since you keep bringing up other fans, i remember going to the fan forum on mlb.com after this trade and reading several bashings of theo.
3rd, at the time Nomar was traded he was just as big as a icon as Ted. Think about it if you can, please. At the time if someone said boston redsox, you would think of nomar, he was the redsox. I dont think YOU see the big picture in this topic, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT NOW I AM TALKING ABOUT PRE-NOMAR TRADE. Ask any redsox fan who their fav. redsox player at the time was, and i garantee at least 80% will say nomar.
3rd-ok we are talking about opinions right. How can i back up my opinion with facts. The way i see it your being so hypocritical, i havent seen you give many facts.

well that it, i have nothing more to say of this topic, plus i cant take you seriously any more after your comment about my posts being amussing.

[farmerfan]

at my espense? Haa, ok dawg, whatever.

"My conlusion:
You are way misinformed by thinking money was the deciding factor.
You are way misinformed by not realizing that the Nomar trade had to be done and it was not as gutsy as you think.
You are way out of your league in this, you have gone back on many things you have once said and have not proven any of your arguments, if you have a opinion that is fine, but back it up, and you have not backed it up with any facts.
"
Ok, first off you make it seem like I was the one who brought up money, YOU DID
Second, The nomar trade was way more of a risk than the CS deal, and I garentee even you had your doubts when theo first made this deal, well since you keep bringing up other fans, i remember going to the fan forum on mlb.com after this trade and reading several bashings of theo.
3rd, at the time Nomar was traded he was just as big as a icon as Ted. Think about it if you can, please. At the time if someone said boston redsox, you would think of nomar, he was the redsox. I dont think YOU see the big picture in this topic, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT NOW I AM TALKING ABOUT PRE-NOMAR TRADE. Ask any redsox fan who their fav. redsox player at the time was, and i garantee at least 80% will say nomar.
3rd-ok we are talking about opinions right. How can i back up my opinion with facts. The way i see it your being so hypocritical, i havent seen you give many facts.

well that it, i have nothing more to say of this topic, plus i cant take you seriously any more after your comment about my posts being amussing.

You say I even had my doubts about the Nomar trade? I was pissed at Nomar when he did not sign that extension that was offered in 2003, I became even more pissed when his injury kept him out longer than expected. I wanted to trade him in June while we could get something for him. When we traded him I told friends that it was the right thing to do, so no I did not have doubts.
How was the Nomar trade a risk? he was not going to be in a Boston uniform in 2004 no matter what. Trading Nomar was the right thing to do, if the Nomar trade does not work out, Nomar becomes a liability to us. He was not going to be a everyday player after he came back from his injury. The Yankee game in July where we went extra innings proved that. Nomar made it clear that he was not into playing in 2004, he was not producing, he made many errors as well as not producing at the plate. If Theo does not trade Nomar, then we get nothing out of it. He was gone regardless after 2004. Boston fans knew that, the Boston media knew that and the front office as well as the players knew that. If we dont trade Nomar we are stupid and its becomes a waste of opportunity.

How can you say I have not given facts, I backed up why the Nomar trade had to be done, Im sorry if you can not comprehend it, I backed up why Theo did what he did. You gave a opinion and I presented you with the facts to try to tell you why you are wrong. How can you have a opinion that is so short sighted? You dont say someone is a traitor because you have your own views, you need to have a credible reason why he is a traitor and you have not presented one. That is why it is hard to take you seriously, you give your thoughts but dont back them up.

You say I ammuse you and you can't take me serious, like I said earlier I have been going to Boston before they started on the Big Dig, I have been following the Red Sox since was able to comprehend what baseball was. I was born into a family of Red Sox fans, it has been apart of me my whole life. Tell me how I am being hypocritical, I gave my point on why Theo did what he did and have not refrained from it.

Wide presented you with a question earlier that you have not answered, so let me ask, how long have you been a die hard?

No, pre Nomar trade 80% would not have said their favorite Red Sox was Nomar. The kids yes, because they did not know what was going on with him, but in 2004 those who were older and understood were very displeased with Nomar. Yes he was a icon, after Roger left he did become the symbol of the Red Sox, but he was never held in the lore of a Ted Williams, Carl Yazstremski, Luis Tiant, Dwight Evans, Wade Boggs or even a Roger Clemens up until the 92 season. Nomar lost a lot of his lore with Boston fans when he did not take the extension offered to him.

I have not been hypocritical, I have given you many facts to why Theo did what he did in his trades as well as his decision to leave the organization.
Im sorry you dont see why money was not the deciding factor, it was the lack of respect given to Theo when negotiations began as to why he left. I have stated that all throughout my post you have just failed to understand that. I hate that you are done with this thread, but it has been fun.

[wide-e-wide]

The evil empire that is George Steinbrenner and his band of steroid driven overpaid jackasses....does indeed suck.

The only suckage that is more powerful in terms of sucktivity and complete suckdom...is the eternal happening that is ou sucks.

[Primetime536]

You say I even had my doubts about the Nomar trade? I was pissed at Nomar when he did not sign that extension that was offered in 2003, I became even more pissed when his injury kept him out longer than expected. I wanted to trade him in June while we could get something for him. When we traded him I told friends that it was the right thing to do, so no I did not have doubts.
How was the Nomar trade a risk? he was not going to be in a Boston uniform in 2004 no matter what. Trading Nomar was the right thing to do, if the Nomar trade does not work out, Nomar becomes a liability to us. He was not going to be a everyday player after he came back from his injury. The Yankee game in July where we went extra innings proved that. Nomar made it clear that he was not into playing in 2004, he was not producing, he made many errors as well as not producing at the plate. If Theo does not trade Nomar, then we get nothing out of it. He was gone regardless after 2004. Boston fans knew that, the Boston media knew that and the front office as well as the players knew that. If we dont trade Nomar we are stupid and its becomes a waste of opportunity.

How can you say I have not given facts, I backed up why the Nomar trade had to be done, Im sorry if you can not comprehend it, I backed up why Theo did what he did. You gave a opinion and I presented you with the facts to try to tell you why you are wrong. How can you have a opinion that is so short sighted? You dont say someone is a traitor because you have your own views, you need to have a credible reason why he is a traitor and you have not presented one. That is why it is hard to take you seriously, you give your thoughts but dont back them up.

You say I ammuse you and you can't take me serious, like I said earlier I have been going to Boston before they started on the Big Dig, I have been following the Red Sox since was able to comprehend what baseball was. I was born into a family of Red Sox fans, it has been apart of me my whole life. Tell me how I am being hypocritical, I gave my point on why Theo did what he did and have not refrained from it.

Wide presented you with a question earlier that you have not answered, so let me ask, how long have you been a die hard?

No, pre Nomar trade 80% would not have said their favorite Red Sox was Nomar. The kids yes, because they did not know what was going on with him, but in 2004 those who were older and understood were very displeased with Nomar. Yes he was a icon, after Roger left he did become the symbol of the Red Sox, but he was never held in the lore of a Ted Williams, Carl Yazstremski, Luis Tiant, Dwight Evans, Wade Boggs or even a Roger Clemens up until the 92 season. Nomar lost a lot of his lore with Boston fans when he did not take the extension offered to him.

I have not been hypocritical, I have given you many facts to why Theo did what he did in his trades as well as his decision to leave the organization.
Im sorry you dont see why money was not the deciding factor, it was the lack of respect given to Theo when negotiations began as to why he left. I have stated that all throughout my post you have just failed to understand that. I hate that you are done with this thread, but it has been fun.
my entire life, 100% of my life,,,,Hmm my entire life?

ha, i laugh at you, many facts 1!

My facts AGAIN
1. Theo rejected 1.5 mil, ALOT OF MONEY
2. Theo is an icon in boston(kinda a opinion, but a FACT at the same time)
and says hes a "true" redsox fan, and he didnt resign
3.The redsox didnt explode unill after they got OC(as you know, i believe the greatest trade in sox history) not when the team had SH and Nomar


Hmm, 3 to 1......Let me hear a HYPOCRIT please

[Primetime536]

The evil empire that is George Steinbrenner and his band of steroid driven overpaid jackasses....does indeed suck.

The only suckage that is more powerful in terms of sucktivity and complete suckdom...is the eternal happening that is ou sucks.
What was that wide? OU has been to more national champioships in the last 6 years than texas has in it existence?

[Primetime536]

You say I even had my doubts about the Nomar trade? I was pissed at Nomar when he did not sign that extension that was offered in 2003, I became even more pissed when his injury kept him out longer than expected. I wanted to trade him in June while we could get something for him. When we traded him I told friends that it was the right thing to do, so no I did not have doubts.
How was the Nomar trade a risk? he was not going to be in a Boston uniform in 2004 no matter what. Trading Nomar was the right thing to do, if the Nomar trade does not work out, Nomar becomes a liability to us. He was not going to be a everyday player after he came back from his injury. The Yankee game in July where we went extra innings proved that. Nomar made it clear that he was not into playing in 2004, he was not producing, he made many errors as well as not producing at the plate. If Theo does not trade Nomar, then we get nothing out of it. He was gone regardless after 2004. Boston fans knew that, the Boston media knew that and the front office as well as the players knew that. If we dont trade Nomar we are stupid and its becomes a waste of opportunity.

How can you say I have not given facts, I backed up why the Nomar trade had to be done, Im sorry if you can not comprehend it, I backed up why Theo did what he did. You gave a opinion and I presented you with the facts to try to tell you why you are wrong. How can you have a opinion that is so short sighted? You dont say someone is a traitor because you have your own views, you need to have a credible reason why he is a traitor and you have not presented one. That is why it is hard to take you seriously, you give your thoughts but dont back them up.

You say I ammuse you and you can't take me serious, like I said earlier I have been going to Boston before they started on the Big Dig, I have been following the Red Sox since was able to comprehend what baseball was. I was born into a family of Red Sox fans, it has been apart of me my whole life. Tell me how I am being hypocritical, I gave my point on why Theo did what he did and have not refrained from it.

Wide presented you with a question earlier that you have not answered, so let me ask, how long have you been a die hard?

No, pre Nomar trade 80% would not have said their favorite Red Sox was Nomar. The kids yes, because they did not know what was going on with him, but in 2004 those who were older and understood were very displeased with Nomar. Yes he was a icon, after Roger left he did become the symbol of the Red Sox, but he was never held in the lore of a Ted Williams, Carl Yazstremski, Luis Tiant, Dwight Evans, Wade Boggs or even a Roger Clemens up until the 92 season. Nomar lost a lot of his lore with Boston fans when he did not take the extension offered to him.

I have not been hypocritical, I have given you many facts to why Theo did what he did in his trades as well as his decision to leave the organization.
Im sorry you dont see why money was not the deciding factor, it was the lack of respect given to Theo when negotiations began as to why he left. I have stated that all throughout my post you have just failed to understand that. I hate that you are done with this thread, but it has been fun.
ok, you didnt have doubts, but if OC contiued to hit .220 and DM was a bust what would you of said?

I WANT NOMAR. AKA THE BOSTON REDSOX

[wide-e-wide]

What was that wide? OU has been to more national champioships in the last 6 years than texas has in it existence?


That's interesting Prime...especially considering that The University of Texas has 21 more national championships than OU does...However, the okies are currently ranked #1 in men's gymnastics...so who knows...they could snag another one and only trail by 20.

Never ...ever...ever....underestimate the power of OU suckage.

[farmerfan]

ok, you didnt have doubts, but if OC contiued to hit .220 and DM was a bust what would you of said?

I WANT NOMAR. AKA THE BOSTON REDSOX

DM was brought in for defensive reasons, OC was much of the same, our lineup was prodcucing already without Nomar so we did not need OC to be a offesenive star for us. We needed improvement on our defense and that is why we brought in DM and OC. Notice why DM usually came into games in the late innings? Notice how with OC our defensive improved? Thus making the argument that the trade had to be done and was not a risk. With Nomar we were not getting the job done, that is why he was dealt. Nomar was a lame-duck anyway you look at it.

[farmerfan]

my entire life, 100% of my life,,,,Hmm my entire life?

ha, i laugh at you, many facts 1!

My facts AGAIN
1. Theo rejected 1.5 mil, ALOT OF MONEY
2. Theo is an icon in boston(kinda a opinion, but a FACT at the same time)
and says hes a "true" redsox fan, and he didnt resign
3.The redsox didnt explode unill after they got OC(as you know, i believe the greatest trade in sox history) not when the team had SH and Nomar


Hmm, 3 to 1......Let me hear a HYPOCRIT please

Why should Theo have resigned? If you arent wanted then you dont take crap, that is what Theo did he got sick of the crap.

The Red Sox got better after the trade of Nomar, he was baggage and we were going no where till we got rid of him, that is why the trade was not a risk, any GM in baseball in the Sox situation would have done the same thing.

Theo didnt resign with the Sox for management reasons, not because he is unloyal to the Red Sox. Would you go to work for a boss who did not appreciate you and made it clear that he considered you his pup? You have failed to see the whole reason why Theo rejected this offer.

Continue to laugh at me, considering you have not made any valid points and you continue to state my case why the Nomar trade needed to happen thus not making it as risky as you might seem.

[farmerfan]

That's interesting Prime...especially considering that The University of Texas has 21 more national championships than OU does...However, the okies are currently ranked #1 in men's gymnastics...so who knows...they could snag another one and only trail by 20.

Never ...ever...ever....underestimate the power of OU suckage.

Texas has won 3 national titles, so once again you are wrong. OU has been to 3 national title games in the last 6 years while Texas has won 3 national titles in its history.

[Primetime536]

Texas has won 3 national titles, so once again you are wrong. OU has been to 3 national title games in the last 6 years while Texas has won 3 national titles in its history.
ok, my bad,,,,,OU doenst suck they have been to the same amount of national championships in the last 6 years as UT has ever,....Better?

ok, your right no risk, no risk in trading the cover of your franchis for decent players? a 323 life time hitter

[Primetime536]

That's interesting Prime...especially considering that The University of Texas has 21 more national championships than OU does...However, the okies are currently ranked #1 in men's gymnastics...so who knows...they could snag another one and only trail by 20.

Never ...ever...ever....underestimate the power of OU suckage.
okies? are we talking about a team from virginia?

[farmerfan]

ok, your right no risk, no risk in trading the cover of your franchis for decent players? a 323 life time hitter


prime are you really that stubborn? What part of Nomar was not coming back do you not understand? Every Red Sox fan knew he was not going to resign with the club, he had his chance and never did. He was not going to return to Boston in 2004, do you not see why they had to trade him? do you not see that Nomar was not going to be productive in 2004? Getting rid of Nomar had to be done, so no there was no risk involved because it was the right thing, the only risk involved was keeping Nomar on the team.
I guess to you its all about popularity and not winning. I guess you would rather keep players because they are so called "popular" than better your team by trading them.

[Primetime536]

prime are you really that stubborn? What part of Nomar was not coming back do you not understand? Every Red Sox fan knew he was not going to resign with the club, he had his chance and never did. He was not going to return to Boston in 2004, do you not see why they had to trade him? do you not see that Nomar was not going to be productive in 2004? Getting rid of Nomar had to be done, so no there was no risk involved because it was the right thing, the only risk involved was keeping Nomar on the team.
I guess to you its all about popularity and not winning. I guess you would rather keep players because they are so called "popular" than better your team by trading them.
I think your missing my point, i said this trade was brillant, and i see why theo did it. Im just pointing out the risk theo took making this deal

[farmerfan]

I think your missing my point, i said this trade was brillant, and i see why theo did it. Im just pointing out the risk theo took making this deal

what risk was that?
as far as I see it the trade made perfect sense and had to be done, there was no risk involved. we needed defensive help at the time of the trade so we traded and got it. Since Nomar was not performing for us we got something out of him while we could, there was no risk involved, the only risk would have been doing nothing at all.

[Primetime536]

what risk was that?
as far as I see it the trade made perfect sense and had to be done, there was no risk involved. we needed defensive help at the time of the trade so we traded and got it. Since Nomar was not performing for us we got something out of him while we could, there was no risk involved, the only risk would have been doing nothing at all.
well dude, i guese your right,,,,,,,not really,,,,,,,i really dont know how you can sit there and take this amazing trade away from the glorious state that its at. this really is a great trade, whether you think it was or not.

Hell, why dont you just make an arguement that Theos not a good GM, i mean look at all the bad stuff hes dont:
1.Edgar R, BUST
2.Wells,BUST
3.Clement,BUST
4.Wade M, BUST
5.No deals at trade deadline, Cost the Sox a decent run IN the playoffs
6.Not resiging Pedro,STUPID
7.Not getting help in the pen last offseason,STUPID

well, whats it going to be, is theo the "godly" gm you described him as at first, or a man who make the ovious trades, such as the "no risk" nomar trade.

Hell while im at ill bring something up you once said,"JH and LL are terrible owners"

haaa how stupid could you be if you said this, Have you seen fenway park latley? Hmmm, new playing surface, new club house, monster seats, right field roof seats, naming "fisk pole", well i guese thats it, man,,,now that i look at it,,, they are terrible, they should of added a brand new upper deck equiped with 40,000 brand new seats, thats what a good Gm woulda done, RIGHT?

[wide-e-wide]

okies? are we talking about a team from virginia?


okies...as in hillbillies from chokelahoma...you know...the locals.

[farmerfan]

well dude, i guese your right,,,,,,,not really,,,,,,,i really dont know how you can sit there and take this amazing trade away from the glorious state that its at. this really is a great trade, whether you think it was or not.

Hell, why dont you just make an arguement that Theos not a good GM, i mean look at all the bad stuff hes dont:
1.Edgar R, BUST
2.Wells,BUST
3.Clement,BUST
4.Wade M, BUST
5.No deals at trade deadline, Cost the Sox a decent run IN the playoffs
6.Not resiging Pedro,STUPID
7.Not getting help in the pen last offseason,STUPID

well, whats it going to be, is theo the "godly" gm you described him as at first, or a man who make the ovious trades, such as the "no risk" nomar trade.

Hell while im at ill bring something up you once said,"JH and LL are terrible owners"

haaa how stupid could you be if you said this, Have you seen fenway park latley? Hmmm, new playing surface, new club house, monster seats, right field roof seats, naming "fisk pole", well i guese thats it, man,,,now that i look at it,,, they are terrible, they should of added a brand new upper deck equiped with 40,000 brand new seats, thats what a good Gm woulda done, RIGHT?

Why does me saying the trade had to be done take away from how good it was. The fact that Theo did it was good, had he not it would have been stupid. He saw what needed to be done and acted upon it, you were the one saying it was a risk, I was the one saying that it was good because it had to be done. Theo thought the same thing, thats why they were going to deal him to LA or Chicago if the A-rod trade went through in janurary 2004. I have never said Theo was stupid, or a bad GM, I dont know where you are getting this.
Do you not realize why Nomar had to be dealt?

You ask if I have seen Fenway lately, I was there this past July for the a yankee series and I make a annual trip every summer to catch a series or two. The playing field had to be replaced it was old and had drainage problems (remember game 3 of the 2004 ALCS?) the club house was old and had been discussed for years, it was a matter of time before it was done.
Do you not know about these two clowns history, they took Florida built them up for a year to win a title, then totally tore down the team and Florida sucked for years. They then went to San Diego and did the same thing, these guys have a history of tearing down teams, mark my words these guys wont be in charge in 2 years.

[Primetime536]

Why does me saying the trade had to be done take away from how good it was. The fact that Theo did it was good, had he not it would have been stupid. He saw what needed to be done and acted upon it, you were the one saying it was a risk, I was the one saying that it was good because it had to be done. Theo thought the same thing, thats why they were going to deal him to LA or Chicago if the A-rod trade went through in janurary 2004. I have never said Theo was stupid, or a bad GM, I dont know where you are getting this.
Do you not realize why Nomar had to be dealt?

You ask if I have seen Fenway lately, I was there this past July for the a yankee series and I make a annual trip every summer to catch a series or two. The playing field had to be replaced it was old and had drainage problems (remember game 3 of the 2004 ALCS?) the club house was old and had been discussed for years, it was a matter of time before it was done.
Do you not know about these two clowns history, they took Florida built them up for a year to win a title, then totally tore down the team and Florida sucked for years. They then went to San Diego and did the same thing, these guys have a history of tearing down teams, mark my words these guys wont be in charge in 2 years.
I know you didnt say theo was stupid, i was just saying that because you make it seem like this trade was a simple, easy decision trade. This is the trade that has defined Theos career, DONT EVEN ARGUE THIS. without this trade the sox drought is 88 years.

OK, who cared about what they have done in Flordia, they are winning here, 3 straight post seasons appearences, and 1 title.OH, and how many straight sellouts is it? OVER 100. COME ON BRO, these are all valid facts, these guys are going a great job.

Oh one more thing, look at all the money they are giving their GM to work with!!!

[farmerfan]

I know you didnt say theo was stupid, i was just saying that because you make it seem like this trade was a simple, easy decision trade. This is the trade that has defined Theos career, DONT EVEN ARGUE THIS. without this trade the sox drought is 88 years.

OK, who cared about what they have done in Flordia, they are winning here, 3 straight post seasons appearences, and 1 title.OH, and how many straight sellouts is it? OVER 100. COME ON BRO, these are all valid facts, these guys are going a great job.

Oh one more thing, look at all the money they are giving their GM to work with!!!

You are finally seeing my point, yes it was a simple easy trade to be made, and it had to be made, if he doesnt make it, he is not doing his job.

These guys let Theo get away. That is the 1st mistake. You say who cares what they ahve done in the past, well history has a funny way of repeating itself. The 3 straight post season apperances furthers my argument of why these idiots should have done everything possible to keep Theo, Theo is responsible for the three post season apperances not the owners, it is Theo's legacy not the owners. The world title falls on Theo not the ownership. The sellouts are over 200, and that is because a winner is on the field and the winner is a reflection of the GM not the owner, that is why Hicks got rid of Hart he was not producing. If you leave a owner to build a ball club then you are royally screwed. Just sit back and watch and you will see how these guys will do more harm than good.

[wide-e-wide]

Hey...since you two are talking Red Sox...
did either of you see "Fever Pitch"
My wife and I are gonna watch it tomorrow night..
any good?

[farmerfan]

Hey...since you two are talking Red Sox...
did either of you see "Fever Pitch"
My wife and I are gonna watch it tomorrow night..
any good?

never saw it wide. didnt like the notion that someone was making money off of something so genius. i was to mad to see it because I wish i had come up with the idea. i have heard it was a great movie. I do have the NESN documentary 'Keep the Faith' that documents the whole season from the final pitch of game 7 in 2003 all the way to the parade along the banks of the River Charles.

[wide-e-wide]

never saw it wide. didnt like the notion that someone was making money off of something so genius. i was to mad to see it because I wish i had come up with the idea. i have heard it was a great movie. I do have the NESN documentary 'Keep the Faith' that documents the whole season from the final pitch of game 7 in 2003 all the way to the