Defending the Veer

[da hawaiian]

I thought I might get some pointers on what to watch when I sit through an anxious LaborDay matchup btw my Trojans and formidable JC from LA.

[da hawaiian]

I forgot to add - what are the keys to defending the Veer.

This is also the same scheme that DeLaSalle brought down to Hawaii my last year as that states resident and watched Maurice Drew put 200 yds on a damn fine front 7 (St Louis of Honolulu) behind a very undersized offensive line.

[cajun]

I thought I might get some pointers on what to watch when I sit through an anxious LaborDay matchup btw my Trojans and formidable JC from LA.

JC's veer is more of a formation than anything else...Very seldom do they option or pitch the ball...Every now and again they will....

Now, JC does run alot of counters out of the veer and it seems like their Blocking Scheme changes every play or every other play...

Basically, they just pound it and try to wear the other team down...Alot of times that's good enough down here....

Trinity presents a problem in that JC won't be able to push them off the ball, I don't think...So, I expect JC to go more outside and pass alittle more against Trinity with some heavy play action out of the veer....JT Curtis pretty old school though, SO he gonna test Trinity maybe for a quarter or so and see if he can push the Trojans off the ball at all...If he has alittle luck-he'll do it all game long....3 yards at a time...

That's how I see it....

Looking forward to seeing this game...

[dragonsdaddy]

JC's veer is more of a formation than anything else...Very seldom do they option or pitch the ball...Every now and again they will....

Now, JC does run alot of counters out of the veer and it seems like their Blocking Scheme changes every play or every other play...

Basically, they just pound it and try to wear the other team down...Alot of times that's good enough down here....

Trinity presents a problem in that JC won't be able to push them off the ball, I don't think...So, I expect JC to go more outside and pass alittle more against Trinity with some heavy play action out of the veer....JT Curtis pretty old school though, SO he gonna test Trinity maybe for a quarter or so and see if he can push the Trojans off the ball at all...If he has alittle luck-he'll do it all game long....3 yards at a time...

That's how I see it....

Looking forward to seeing this game...
i'm thinking et will have their way in the second half. they will likely win the los battle more often than not. sounds like a matchup problem for jc.

[TrojanHorse03]

Based on the styles of the 2 teams, I personally think it will be a tight one. It wouldn't be the first time JC has knocked off a favored team out of state. You can never underestimate a national power who's won 22 state championships :eek: and Curtis gets it done with a good combination of both talent and time tested discipline that I hope we can match. I'm sure Cajun can expand on all the kids they've sent D1 as well.

[wesaxman34]

A win here will give us a lot of momentum needed for the difficult schedule...I don't know anything about JC but I know they will bring everything they've got.

[TrojanHorse03]

A win here will give us a lot of momentum needed for the difficult schedule...I don't know anything about JC but I know they will bring everything they've got.

Well you know the most important thing about them, it should be a good game as Coach Lineweaver always schedules challenging opponents for non-district and John Curtis fits the bill. This is a team with a winning tradition as evidenced by the fact they are coming off 4 straight state titles :eek:, have produced talent players such as USC's next stud Joe McKnight, and has won a huge nationally televised game before.

[cajun]

Well you know the most important thing about them, it should be a good game as Coach Lineweaver always schedules challenging opponents for non-district and John Curtis fits the bill. This is a team with a winning tradition as evidenced by the fact they are coming off 4 straight state titles :eek:, have produced talent players such as USC's next stud Joe McKnight, and has won a huge nationally televised game before.

Might be a game...:cool:

[StateSpeech97]

run a 3-4 and keep shoulders square to line of scrimmage...bada bing bada boom

[Bobcat81]

JC's veer is more of a formation than anything else...Very seldom do they option or pitch the ball...Every now and again they will....

Now, JC does run alot of counters out of the veer and it seems like their Blocking Scheme changes every play or every other play...

Basically, they just pound it and try to wear the other team down...Alot of times that's good enough down here....

Trinity presents a problem in that JC won't be able to push them off the ball, I don't think...So, I expect JC to go more outside and pass alittle more against Trinity with some heavy play action out of the veer....JT Curtis pretty old school though, SO he gonna test Trinity maybe for a quarter or so and see if he can push the Trojans off the ball at all...If he has alittle luck-he'll do it all game long....3 yards at a time...

That's how I see it....

Looking forward to seeing this game...

19? state titles out of 25 or so trips to the state championship with that offense. That's probably the most successful veer school i've ever heard of.

[da hawaiian]

Never heard of DelaSalle??

[Bobcat81]

Never heard of DelaSalle??

Definately!

Are they a "veer" offense?

[da hawaiian]

They do :)

[cajun]

19? state titles out of 25 or so trips to the state championship with that offense. That's probably the most successful veer school i've ever heard of.

I don't think that much matters...Different level here, though JC did win 6 or 7 (4A) titles here...They had a much tougher time in 4A here...

Be super hard for JC to go to Dallas and beat Trinity...They will put up a good fight, I think...

At the end probably come up short...

[TrojanHorse03]

19? state titles out of 25 or so trips to the state championship with that offense. That's probably the most successful veer school i've ever heard of.

In disciplined hands like De La Salle's and John Curtis' the veer is deadly and efficient.

[da hawaiian]

I have no idea what the JC game plan will be for the game.

But the Trinity Players infamiliarity with playing this scheme is a big question mark. I know that Coach Lineweaver is an old hat with the Flexbone during his time with SLC and Commerce (3A), but some lessons regarding the nuances of a specific scheme can only be gained with experienced, no matter how much you go over X's and O's. I hope the boys are quick study's.

IF JC can shorten the game by grounding out the clock and score with high efficiency, there will be a tremendous amount of pressure on the Trinity players who will have a world of expectations weighing on their young shoulders to handle.

It will be interesting and nerve racking to see how the first half plays out and how the boys handle a potentially tight half.

[SV61]

The 4-3 (27), OR 5-2 (or 3-4 for that matter) defenses can be very effective against the Veer, if everybody stays home.

Defensive 3 or 5 techniques (Guards or tackles), are responsible for the first option (Fullback). This defender is many times double teamed, so a strong double team breaker would be preferable. The second option, the quarterback is USUALLY handled by the Outside LB, on a 4-3, or equivilent on the 3-4 or 5-2. The final option, the pitch back, is the responsibility of the 7 or 9 technique (Defensive end) in the 4-3 or 5-2 scheme, or Outside LB on the 3-4.

It can be done. Everybody working together, and make the quarterback beat you. Don't GIVE the Veer anything. When the Veer is run correctly, it can be deadly. It is convincing your defense to stay home, and believe in one another, that can win the game.

[Bobcat81]

Has the "Crack-Block" (WR blocking down on the blind side of the LB, SS, or DE?) been outlawed in LA. & Cali? That was a devastating block that was once a no-holds barred type of block until they outlawed it here. I think you can still block down in the sense but the blocker basically has to put his body in the way of his objective rather than try to take him out.

Very effective with the veer offense. Leaves the CB in a 2 to 1 disadvantage against the outside option.

[Bobcat81]

A couple of Bill Yeoman's thoughts on the veer vs. modern defenses.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/11689011.html

JC may have a bit on an advantage if Trinity is overloaded with habits that defend the spread.

Notice that Yeoman had to come up with a scheme that could turn the tables in his favor against a larger Penn State team. "Sound execution often covers up athletic deficiencies."

[Kingwolf]

JC has only lost 22 games since 1980...22 games in 28 years...

As far as the veer goes...they are by far the most disciplined team I have ever seen..their blocking is even better than SLC...De La Salle runs a very similar offense, but it is more of a split veer...not much different but some...

size absolutely does not matter when playing them...thier discipline negates size and speed everytime...

Longview won b/c they were patient and took what was given to them...

JC does not make a lot of mistakes...

[Bobcat81]

2007 - Longview vs. John Curtis game highlights:
http://www.mreplay.com/video/9bab6b23c26c2dab2a29/2007-texas-hs-football---john-curtis--la--at-longview

John Curtis Football Facts-Updated to 2006

**J.T. Curtis' updated record is **443-46-6 (Updated 12/9/06). (**Note: After looking at the record book, we have determined that J.T.'s W/L record had been recorded incorrectly. The record that is updated now is correct and official.)

**The Patriots have had 32 straight playoff appearances under Coach J.T. (Updated 11/6/06)

**The Patriots have had 34 playoff appearances under Coach J.T. (Updated 11/6/06)

**The Patriots have 27 State Championship appearances. (Updated 12/4/06)

**The Patriots have been State Champions twenty-one times (21) and runners-up six (6) times. (Updated 12/9/06)

**The Patriots have not lost at home since 2001 against the O.P. Walker Chargers 20-0. Consequently that was the last time the Patriots were shutout as well. Before that the Patriots held the national streak for points scored in a game at 303. Also, that was the first district loss since 1977, ammassing 136 straight district victories.

**With the Patriots win against the Pine Raiders (11/10/06), that marks the 32nd consecutive season the Patriots have won 10 or more games in a season.

**The Patriots have finished undefeated for the year eleven (11) times. (Updated 12/9/06)

**The Patriots played the last game ever played in old Tulane Stadium in 1978 when the Patriots beat Jonesboro-Hodge 40-0 in the State Championship.

**The Patriots have had three 3-peat state championships (1979, 80, & 81; 1983, 84, & 85 and 2004, 05 & 06) and one 4 in a row streak (1996, 97, 98 & 99).

**Since 1970 the Patriot defense has only allowed an opponent to score 30+ points in a game 8 times!! (1971 Port Sulpher-40; 1974 St.Martin's-33; 1976 Mandeville-31; 1981 Ferriday-30; 1986 Ehret-30; 1992 Terrebonne-32; 1999 Carver-31; 2000 Salmen-31 and 2001 Cohen-32) Only one team since 1970 has scored 40 points! (1971 Port Sulpher-40)

**On the flip side,the Patriots have scored 30+ points in a game 332 times!! They have scored 40+ points 163 times, 50+ points 51 times and 60+ points 7 times! (Updated 12/9/06)

**The Patriots have the most ever appearances by one team in state championships with 27. (Updated 12/4/06)

http://www.eteamz.com/JCFootball/news/index.cfm?cat=136339

Home/Webpage: http://www.eteamz.com/jcfootball/index.cfm

[Kingwolf]

Complete team history for JC including the score for EVERY game they have ever played...

http://http://www.eteamz.com/jcfootball/index.cfm (http://www.eteamz.com/jcfootball/index.cfm)

[Bobcat81]

I was watching some videos of JC in action and it seems as though the QB doesn't do the reads (As opposed to traditional veer reads), much while the play is in motion. I guess he's doing his checks before the snap and making the appropriate call, because once the ball is snapped, he's either looking straight down the line of scrimmage, or at his intended handoff target.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bAbZNy5mcDM

...and yes, it appears they seldom use the option pitch outside. I guess they don't have to when the line is doing their part up front. Makes for easy yards up the middle.

From what i've seen, they use the shotgun just about as much as they go under center. Impressive bunch those guys!

[dragonsdaddy]

I was watching some videos of JC in action and it seems as though the QB doesn't do the reads (As opposed to traditional veer reads), much while the play is in motion. I guess he's doing his checks before the snap and making the appropriate call, because once the ball is snapped, he's either looking straight down the line of scrimmage, or at his intended handoff target.

...and yes, it appears they seldom use the option pitch outside. I guess they don't have to when the line is doing their part up front. Makes for easy yards up the middle.

From what i've seen, they use the shotgun just about as much as they go under center. Impressive bunch those guys!

it seems like fewer option teams actually option anymore. there is so much load blocking and such, which predetermines where the ball will go, using presnap reads. the zone read option is rarely a true option either, it seems. most coaches realize how important the qb is to the success of the team, and so don't want to offer him up to the safety/lb/de as a tackling dummy.

[Bobcat81]

Dp

[cajun]

John Curtis will have a new QB this year-Bryce Jenkins...He's about 6-0 175 lbs (Junior)...Be interesting to see how he handles the Trinity pressure...

You guys building JC up like LSU have a hard time beating them though.. :D

It should be a great game....

Side Note...My Mighty Rummel Raiders better than JC this year...:cool:

[TrojanHorse03]

Just respect from a program who knows how hard it is to reach the ultimate goal. Things like 22 losses in 28 years and

**Since 1970 the Patriot defense has only allowed an opponent to score 30+ points in a game 8 times!! (1971 Port Sulpher-40; 1974 St.Martin's-33; 1976 Mandeville-31; 1981 Ferriday-30; 1986 Ehret-30; 1992 Terrebonne-32; 1999 Carver-31; 2000 Salmen-31 and 2001 Cohen-32) Only one team since 1970 has scored 40 points! (1971 Port Sulpher-40) :eek::eek::eek:

are impressive no matter who you are and how you slice it.

[da wiz]

John Curtis will have a new QB this year-Bryce Jenkins...He's about 6-0 175 lbs (Junior)...Be interesting to see how he handles the Trinity pressure...

You guys building JC up like LSU have a hard time beating them though.. :D

It should be a great game....

Side Note...My Mighty Rummel Raiders better than JC this year...:cool:
should be a GOOD, defensive game, i dont think JC, will see a defense the rest of the year that hits like the one they will see on sept, 1...........

[football101]

It has been a while since I've been on this site but I had to comment upon the reading the subject. When it comes to the veer the key to stopping it would be stopping the dive. In the veer offense, the key they are reading (if its outside veer) is the playside DE. The DE position has to be disciplined because thats who the QB is reading. However, most of the time in highschool the QB is told what to do with the ball because most QB's can't make the read on the fly like that. Usually what you want to do with the veer is force the QB to pitch the ball as quick as possible and let your outside force player(s) run down (flow) to the pitchman. Whenever we would play a veer team we would tell the DE to squeeze down on the QB's upfield shoulder and tell him to hit the QB everytime. However, cajun is right about one thing and if you have a coach that can get you into situations by formation it can make defending the veer that much tougher. Your players must know their assignments first and foremost and be able to do their part everytime.

[da hawaiian]

John Curtis will have a new QB this year-Bryce Jenkins...He's about 6-0 175 lbs (Junior)...Be interesting to see how he handles the Trinity pressure...

You guys building JC up like LSU have a hard time beating them though.. :D

It should be a great game....

Side Note...My Mighty Rummel Raiders better than JC this year...:cool:

For some reason I thought you was a Mandeville fan Cajun

[cajun]

For some reason I thought you was a Mandeville fan Cajun

The Mandeville Skippers?...Nah, :D

I went to Rummel way back when....Actually, it hasn't been that long-seems like it though...

Mandeville is a nice little community on what we call the North Shore here(nice place for a picnic)...About 40 minutes from me....I'm a city boy, I guess....

[cajun]

I was watching some Jonathan McKnight(Joe's brother) highlights this morning....This kid ain't bad...I can see alittle Joe in him at times and he does have an extra gear seems like....Trinity will have to watch Mcknight on special teams-he returns kicks and punts...Wears #4 also like his brother...Jonathan was a 10th grader last year-still got 2 years to develop...Will post his highlights alittle later....He can scoot...

Been some talk JT may let Mcknight run the ball and move Kenny Cain back to LB(his natural position)....That will be interesting if it happens...

http://alabama.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=75052

[TrojanHorse03]

I was watching some Jonathan McKnight(Joe's brother) highlights this morning....This kid ain't bad...I can see alittle Joe in him at times and he does have an extra gear seems like....Trinity will have to watch Mcknight on special teams-he returns kicks and punts...Wears #4 also like his brother...Jonathan was a 10th grader last year-still got 2 years to develop...Will post his highlights alittle later....He can scoot...

Been some talk JT may let Mcknight run the ball and move Kenny Cain back to LB(his natural position)....That will be interesting if it happens...

http://alabama.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=75052

I get this feeling against us they might line him up out wide as a wrinkle like his bro and take some shots deep.

[cajun]

I get this feeling against us they might line him up out wide as a wrinkle like his bro and take some shots deep.

JT will take a couple shots deep-no doubt about it...He likes to set it up by running the same play 150 times...:eek:

I hope JT doesn't think he's just gonna line it up against Trinity and push them around...Be a major mistake, but watching Curits over the years he gonna make Trinity prove he can't....

[da hawaiian]

JT will take a couple shots deep-no doubt about it...He likes to set it up by running the same play 150 times...:eek:

I hope JT doesn't think he's just gonna line it up against Trinity and push them around...Be a major mistake, but watching Curits over the years he gonna make Trinity prove he can't....

That's why we play the game. Too many times I've gone into games with a preconceived idea and then seen it shot to threads. We'll know how stout the middle of the Trojan Defense is once they've lined up across the JC Hogs. And I am nervously waiting to see what JC will bring to the table.

[TrojanHorse03]

That's why we play the game. Too many times I've gone into games with a preconceived idea and then seen it shot to threads. We'll know how stout the middle of the Trojan Defense is once they've lined up across the JC Hogs. And I am nervously waiting to see what JC will bring to the table.

Not to mention we're notorious for starting the season(non-district) slow.

[da wiz]

[QUOTE=Kingwolf;820075]JC has only lost 22 games since 1980...22 games in 28 years...

As far as the veer goes...they are by far the most disciplined team I have ever seen..their blocking is even better than SLC...De La Salle runs a very similar offense, but it is more of a split veer...not much different but some...

size absolutely does not matter when playing them...thier discipline negates size and speed everytime...

Longview won b/c they were patient and took what was given to them...

see, i thought the lobo's won because they were more physical in the
trenches, also they used a bruising RB, that helped wear down JC.