V. Young Heisman?

[TheDuke]

Who do you think is gonna win the Heisman this year Folks?

Do you think Young will?

[PantherPack]

Gotta go with Matt Leinart. I think Reggie will be in the running.

[jtk1519]

If I had to guess, I would say the finalist will probably be...

WR/RB Reggie Bush - USC
WR/KR Tedd Ginn Jr. - Ohio State
QB Vince Young - Texas
RB Adrian Peterson - land theives
RB DeAngelo Williams - Memphis

Others to watch out for:

QB Chris Leak - Florida
QB Matt Leinart - USC
QB Drew Tate - Iowa
QB Omar Jacobs - Bowling Green
QB Brian Brohm - Lousiville

[dada]

Omar Jacobs Bowling Green. Passed for over 4,000 yds 40+ td's and like 4 int's. Think he will be a jr this year.

[dragonfootballfan]

Gotta go with Matt Leinart. I think Reggie will be in the running.
Reggie will not be in the running once A&M gets into Big 12 play. He may actually get injured before then.

[GTown02]

Reggie will not be in the running once A&M gets into Big 12 play. He may actually get injured before then.
I believe he was refering to Reggie Bush, not McNiel, but i may be wrong.

[jtk1519]

Omar Jacobs Bowling Green. Passed for over 4,000 yds 40+ td's and like 4 int's. Think he will be a jr this year.

He put up some awesome numbers. Was the third leading passer in the nation completing 67% of his passes for 4002 yards. His 41 TDs to just 4 INTs is an NCAA Div. 1A record. Threw only 1 INT to 26 TDs in MAC play. He also led his team to a 9-3 record. Depending on who Tech plugs in at QB, I wouldnt be surprised to see Jacobs lead the nation in passin.

[stevefoxsc]

ima go with V.Y every one was shocked at his performace at this years rose bowl heck even people at buddypic.com were woundering if he was human

[garlandowl08]

I know my opinion is biased, but don't count Reggie McNeil out. He is a possible dark horse for the heisman this year and won't ever be a favorite, but keep your eye on him. Assuming he goes un-injured, he could have a great year.

[dragonsdaddy]

if vy can get his coaches to turn him loose in a format that allows him to succeed at what he does best, i vote for him with the main comp coming from the rrso and ad. oh yeah, that leinart kid is pretty salty too.

[OhioCoach]

I am a fan of Vince Young but being an Ohio boy I would like to see T.Ginn win the heisman.

[wide-e-wide]

If you really look at it...winning the Heisman isn't as special
as it once was...I mean c'mon Jason White won it...

[dragonfootballfan]

If you really look at it...winning the Heisman isn't as special
as it once was...I mean c'mon Jason White won it...
I think it means more now than ever before. There are a lot more talented athletes now and the media is covering a lot more teams and a lot more players are getting exposure. The heisman has everything to do with college and nothing to do with the NFL. The heisman is not given to the player they think will be the best in the NFL, that honor is given with the number one pick in the draft. If Matt Leinart had come out he would have been a no-brainer first pick and then what would you say.

The heisman means so much now, look Matt Leinart won it.

[RP-3]

I agree with Wide-Eye; It doesn't mean as much anymore because its not given to the best athlete in college football.

[wide-e-wide]

2004 Matt Leinart USC (Quarterback) 2003 Jason White Oklahoma (Quarterback)
2002 Carson Palmer Southern California (Quarterback)
2001 Eric Crouch Nebraska (Quarterback)
2000 Chris Weinke Florida State (Quarterback)
1999 Ron Dayne Wisconsin (Running Back)
1998 Ricky Williams Texas (Running Back)
1997 Charles Woodson Michigan (Cornerback)
1996 Danny Wuerffel Florida (Quarterback)
1995 Eddie George Ohio State (Running Back)
1994 Rashaan Salaam Colorado (Running Back)
1993 Charlie Ward Florida State (Quarterback)
1992 Gino Torretta Miami (Quarterback)
1991 Desmond Howard Michigan (Wide Receiver)
1990 Ty Detmer Brigham Young (Quarterback)
1989 Andre Ware Houston (Quarterback

[wide-e-wide]

The heisman means so much now, look Matt Leinart won it.[/QUOTE]

After reading your post I thought "maybe that's right"...then I looked at the list and said " nope...the Heisman means nothing"

How many Hall of Famers are on that list? How many are even in the league?

[dragonfootballfan]

How many Hall of Famers are on that list? How many are even in the league?
what does this have to do with College football? First of all there would be no hall of famers on that list because you only go back 15 years leaving only about 2 players if they had a hall of fame carreer lasting 9-10 years elegible for induction. The Heisman means a lot to college football and the NFL draft means a lot to the NFL.

[wide-e-wide]

Okay...how many future Hall of famers are on that list?
The Heisman is over-rated...

[SummitGrad04]

If you really look at it...winning the Heisman isn't as special
as it once was...I mean c'mon Jason White won it...
I've gotta agree with you on this one. Nowadays, the heisman just goes to the quarterback on the best team.
And Jason White should've never received it. Had the sportswriters waited until after the Big XII Title game where OU got killed by K-State, there's no way he would've won.

[KT2000]

Matt Leinart should be a heavy favorite to win the Heisman again after what he did last year. USC is going to have a better offense this season. The Trojan receiver corps was all but decimated for most of last year due to various issues like the Mike Williams saga, grades and injuries.

Right now, the only player I think has a great shot to take it from Leinart is his own teammate Reggie Bush. Vincent Young can quickly move into favorite mode if Texas can impress in the first half of the season and beat Ohio State and Oklahoma. Winning those two games would obviously do a lot for his stock since Texas' home schedule is not very strong this year, and the only challenging away game will be at A&M. Texas returns a ton of starters on both sides of the ball from that Rose Bowl winning team, so this Longhorn team has all of the pieces it needs to be very successful.

Reggie McNeal is good enough to get consideration for the Heisman, but his team is going to have to be in contention for a top five ranking/BCS bowl invite at the least by season's end to make that a real possibility. Of course, the Aggies would need to beat one (if not both depending on how polls shake out) of Oklahoma and Texas to get in position while beating everyone else in the process.

Omar Jacobs put up great numbers last year, and is a very good QB in my opinion. However, I can't see someone from a "mid-major" winning the Heisman in this day and age. Jacobs will automatically be discredited just because of who he plays for. I think the Heisman should be given to the best (or most valuable depending on your definition) player in football regardless of stats and/or competition.

Leinart was very deserving last year just because of what he had to work with going in. The USC offense is going to be amazing to watch this fall. Leinart is going to be a heavy, heavy favorite to win the Heisman because there doesn't appear to be anyone in the Pac 10 that can stand toe to toe with USC. The Trojans should "coast" into the championship game.

[dragonfootballfan]

Okay...how many future Hall of famers are on that list?
The Heisman is over-rated...
there are many future college football hall of famers on that list. After all the Heisman is a college award.

[TheDuke]

Okay...how many future Hall of famers are on that list?
The Heisman is over-rated...

The Heisman has NOTHING to do with Pro Football or Hall of Famers, these are guys who DOMINATED in the NCAA! So why is it overrated? This is just a honor for NCAA FOOTBALL ONLY!!! NFL is a whole different level! It is kind of like saying how many High School kids who were All- Americans who got scholars who were good but then fail out because of grades, are scholarships overrated because of that? I thinkg it is just a symbol of how good they are at THAT level.
;) :D

[wide-e-wide]

I think it is a symbol of how many great players got screwed while they
were in the NCAA. At no point during his college career was Jason White the best player in the nation. So that means somebody got shafted...
Sure he could chunk a football all day long...but he moved from sideline to sideline at the speed of constipation...If your going to give it to the best athlete....do that!...not the guy with all the publicity and hype....sometimes they get it right. But more often than not...they are way off.

[TheDuke]

Who do you think should have won the Heisman if not White? I don't even remember who else was in the race?

[wide-e-wide]

Larry Fitzgerald would have been my pick.
If not him...I would have given it to Philip Rivers
over Jason White.

[farmerfan]

sounds like bitterness due to one of the worst defeats in longhorn history. Jason White was the best player in college football during his 1st senior year. He led OU to what was considered one of the most impressive regular season's in college football history. His TD/INT ratio ranks as one of the best also. He racked up yards while only playing in one half for many games. Take the orange shaded glasses off and realize that White was the most derserving of the award the year he won it, in fact his numbers were as good if not better than Leinarts this past year, so did Matt Leinart not deserve to win it this past year? and what did Fitzgerald or Rivers do for their team, for them to garner the title of best player in college football?

[jtk1519]

sounds like bitterness due to one of the worst defeats in longhorn history. Jason White was the best player in college football during his 1st senior year. He led OU to what was considered one of the most impressive regular season's in college football history. His TD/INT ratio ranks as one of the best also. He racked up yards while only playing in one half for many games. Take the orange shaded glasses off and realize that White was the most derserving of the award the year he won it, in fact his numbers were as good if not better than Leinarts this past year, so did Matt Leinart not deserve to win it this past year? and what did Fitzgerald or Rivers do for their team, for them to garner the title of best player in college football?

Holy cow! That wasnt even the best regular season during Bob Stoop's reign much less BlowU's history and not even close to most impressive in college football history. They did however have one of the more impressive choke jobs against Kansas state and then LSU (I know... not in the regular season).

While his 4/1 TD/INT ratio is very impressive... it is nowhere near the best in college football history. Hell, it isnt even the best in BlowU history. David Greene, Kyle Orton, Omar Jacobs, Alex Smith, Stefan Lefors and Matt Leinert had better ratios last year alone.

Now, all that being said, Jason White deserved the Heisman in '03. The mention of Philip Rivers is way off. Rivers wasnt even a finalst for the Heisman that year... he finished 7th in voting. Eli Manning was the only QB that could have topped White (Eli finished 3rd in the voting behind Fitzgerald), but his numbers were just a bit lower than White's. Rivers did put up much better numbers than White (better passer rating, better completion percentage, more yards, etc.), but he didnt lead his team to the success White did. If Fitzgerald wasnt a soph. WR, he probably would have won. Of the 5 voting regions, Fitzgerald won 3 of them, but White had a slightly higher overall point total.

The Heisman is a college award. It has nothing at all to do with the NFL. The list of Heisman winner is littered with names like Eric Crouch, Chris Weinke, Charlie Ward, Danny Wuerffel, Ron Dayne, etc... guys that had stellar college careers only to be less than successful in the NFL. The Heisman is in no way a judge of talent or NFL prospects.

[farmerfan]

I beg to differ on the regular season aspect of OU in 03, going into the K-State team, they were being regarded as one of the best of all time, drawing much comparison to the 95 Nebraska team, they put up over 50 on every big 12 south team with the exception of Baylor, including 2 more games of 50+ against Fresno State and UCLA. The only close game in the regular season came in Tuscaloosa. They averaged 48 points per game while only giving up a average of 13 points. To say that is not one of the best regular seasons in college football history given the competition they played against is foolish at best. In comparison to the only other season that stacks up to it, the 2000 season saw OU win on average of 40-15. The dominance portrayed by OU during the 2003 regular season is unlike anything we have seen since the 95 Nebraska team, you could debate that whit the likes of the 01 Miami team or the 99 FSU team, but they did not win by the dominance that OU did and did not have to play a extra game in order to be crowned confrence champs.
I never mentioned anything about championship games, that is a different story, the reason i mentioned the regular season is that is what won White the heisman and it is arguably one of the greatest regular seasons in History, I would love to see who has had a more impressive regular season other than the 95 Nebraska team.

[pack0808]

do not forget about drew tate from iowa this year.

[wide-e-wide]

[QUOTE=farmerfan]I beg to differ on the regular season aspect of OU in 03, going into the K-State team, they were being regarded as one of the best of all time, drawing much comparison to the 95 Nebraska team

Until K State slapped them in their grill and Stoops spent the entire second half doing the Heimlich on the superstar Heisman winner. Which will go down as one of the biggest choke jobs of this century...and then he turned around and did it again against LSU...You would expect more from the "best" QB in the NCAA wouldn't you...one of the best ever...yeah and Chris Simms will be in the Hall of Fame someday...

[farmerfan]

I never mentioned anything about White's performance against the likes of K-State or LSU, however at least OU was in posistion to choke something away, when was the last times the horns were in a posistion to choke something of value away? O yeah i remember not to long ago against a Colorado team in teh big 12 title game litterally played on home turf. You guys act like OU is the only team who choked, also considering the way you guys are sounding, I would have thought LSU whipped them like USC just did. The talk was heisman, going on the merits that awarded the heisman for the 03 season, Jason White was the obvious choice, all the guys you mentioned wide-e did nothing comapred to White to deserve the honor over him.
You guys kind of prove my point though, the regular season that OU and White had in 03 was so impressive and so great that not even a set back in a confrence title game could keep them out of the national title game, you guys sound like its such a bad thing to get to play for a national title game. I guess not being used to that situation gives you justification for faulting OU for even making it that far.

[jtk1519]

I never mentioned anything about White's performance against the likes of K-State or LSU, however at least OU was in posistion to choke something away, when was the last times the horns were in a posistion to choke something of value away? O yeah i remember not to long ago against a Colorado team in teh big 12 title game litterally played on home turf. You guys act like OU is the only team who choked, also considering the way you guys are sounding, I would have thought LSU whipped them like USC just did. The talk was heisman, going on the merits that awarded the heisman for the 03 season, Jason White was the obvious choice, all the guys you mentioned wide-e did nothing comapred to White to deserve the honor over him.
You guys kind of prove my point though, the regular season that OU and White had in 03 was so impressive and so great that not even a set back in a confrence title game could keep them out of the national title game, you guys sound like its such a bad thing to get to play for a national title game. I guess not being used to that situation gives you justification for faulting OU for even making it that far.


I guess you just cant understand that somebody has a different opinion from you. Keep trying. After time, hopefully you'll understand that.

The facts are pretty simple. Philip Rivers pretty much dominated White in every statistical category, but White was a part of a better team. And they were a VERY good team. You can maybe put them in the top 100 and in some ways you may be able to call them a top 50 team, but that's it. You cant just pick and chose what parts of a season you are going to look at and ignore the rest. You have to look at the entire season. Their regular season numbers dont lie... they were awesome. However, to insinuate that they are among the best teams ever... frankly that seems insulting to the trully great teams in histroy from the likes of Notre Dame, Nebraska, Alabama, etc.

That is my opinion. Get over it.

[wide-e-wide]

When all is said and done and after all of the dust settles...

OU still sucks.

[farmerfan]

I can take the fact that someone has a different opinion, what i dont accept is when someone twist the words I say into something I never said. I never said that OU team was regarded as one of the best ever, I did say their regular season, (which is what got White the heisman) was one of the best ever. I realize to judge a whole team you have to take into account the final games they played, and if we were talking about greatest teams ever, then no I wont say that OU of 03 is their, however we were talking heisman, and some bonehead with orange shaded glasses (not you jtk) said in no way was white deserving of the heisman, and in all ways i was trying to prove that he was. I think i did a lot better job of proving why he deserved the heisman than wide did of saying why he did not, he thinks he did not deserve the heisman just because he played for OU, that would be like me saying Ricky did not deserve the heisman in 98 because he played for Texas when in fact their was no one close to deserving it over him.
Tell me one time where I said this OU team was one of the best ever? I mentioned the regular season they had, along with the number White put up and led them to and that is why he deserved the heisman, and if you look at the numbers they dont lie. Remember White put a lot of the numbers he did in limited playing time, I mean I guess a QB must be horrible to lead a team to haning 65 and 77 on the two big dogs this state claims are so great.
When the dust settles it has still been 35 years and counting since Texas last won or even got the chance to play for a national title game, and approaching 10 years since they even won a confrence title in football.

Jtk
You say my problem is when People dont agree with me or could have another opinion, well that is fair game for you to say, so the conclusion I have gathered about you and wide-e- mainly wide e, is that you guys are the typical Whiny Orange backers, how dare him actually say something about our school or program that could be true that puts it down.

[jtk1519]

I dont recall you putting down Texas in this thread, but whatever you say boss. I said White deserved the Heisman that year. Period... end of story. The rest is just peeing into the wind.

[dragonfootballfan]

the year that Jason White won the Heisman the only other player that I think that you could make a case for would have been Larry Fitzgerald. Arguing for Rivers is ridiculous the only reason any of you guys think that he was good is because he was drafted high in the NFL.

Texas has gotten close to winning the National Championship more recently than 35 years ago. They went 11-1 this year with a Rose Bowl victory and finished at number 4. A couple of years ago you even said all they had to do was beat Colorado and they did not but, if they had won they would have been going to the NC game. Those two are pretty close to the National Championship. Now you could have said that Texas has not won a National Championship in 35 years and you would be correct.

[farmerfan]

jtk
I directed the majority of that post towards wide-e. I know you said he deserved it and had not made comments as to why he did not deserve it.

DFF
I know Texas has come close in the last 35 years, a few years ago had they beat Colorado they would have gotten the joy to play against Miami and probably face similar results to the 91 Cotton Bowl, which ironicaly was the last tie Texas came into the picture as title contenders, coming into the game ranked #3 only to get beat 45-3 or some where around that score as they were on their self proclaimed "shock the world" tour. The only reason I stated that Texas choked that game away was because Wide-e thinks that OU is the only team recently to choke in the Big 12. I give Texas props for winning the Rose bowl this past year, and I think they have a better shot than anyone else in the country this year to be playing for a national championship against USC.

[jtk1519]

the year that Jason White won the Heisman the only other player that I think that you could make a case for would have been Larry Fitzgerald. Arguing for Rivers is ridiculous the only reason any of you guys think that he was good is because he was drafted high in the NFL.

OK, I know I didnt argue for Rivers over White, but there is a case to be made if you look at the numbers. Frankly, Rivers numbers that year make Leinert's in '04 and White's in '03 look rather average. Rivers just didnt lead his team to the regular season success that White did.

I wouldnt make a case for Fitzgerald. You have to do some really amazing things to win the Heisman as a WR in my book.

[dragonfootballfan]

OK, I know I didnt argue for Rivers over White, but there is a case to be made if you look at the numbers. Frankly, Rivers numbers that year make Leinert's in '04 and White's in '03 look rather average. Rivers just didnt lead his team to the regular season success that White did.

I wouldnt make a case for Fitzgerald. You have to do some really amazing things to win the Heisman as a WR in my book.
the Heisman goes to the best player in college football and Rivers was not the best player that year. I thought that White was better. Rivers had the ability to put up huge stats because he played 4 quarters every game. White played 3 quarters most of the time that season.

Is catching 20 touchdown passes including one in almost every game combined with the previous season having 17 or 18 consecutive games with a touchdown reception, good enough to qualify as something really amazing?

[wide-e-wide]

the Heisman goes to the best player in college football and Rivers was not the best player that year. I thought that White was better. Rivers had the ability to put up huge stats because he played 4 quarters every game. White played 3 quarters most of the time that season.

Is catching 20 touchdown passes including one in almost every game combined with the previous season having 17 or 18 consecutive games with a touchdown reception, good enough to qualify as something really amazing?


Sounds pretty impressive to me...

And the way Stoops likes to run up the score on teams...don't kid yourself...White rarely ...if ever came out in the 3rd quarter...I know he didn't against UT...because he was handing it to Quentin Griffin late in the 4th quarter and trying to score again...I know because I was cussin' Stoops for having no class and running up the score.

Face it...Jason White is a bumb...and you know it. He put up big numbers because of the talent he had around him (the majority of which came from Texas). And when faced with the true test.... i.e. the big games....what did he do? He choked.

[jtk1519]

Is catching 20 touchdown passes including one in almost every game combined with the previous season having 17 or 18 consecutive games with a touchdown reception, good enough to qualify as something really amazing?

No. Not enough for a Heisman anyway. Certainly not more impressive than a QB that throws for 4,000 yards and 40 TDs or RB that rushes for 2,000 yards and 20 TDs.

[farmerfan]

White handing off to Griffin? lets see, in the 63-14 debacle I believe it was Josh Hypul who was QB, the following year White split time with Hybl and the next year I believe Hybl led OU to a 35-24 victory, so in no time was White ever handing the ball off to Griffin as a starting QB against Texas while running up the score.
Now as far as Stoops running the score up, that is the most rediculous thing I have heard, esp coming from a Texas fan, i mean are we crying out for sympathy? Stoops was not running up the score on Texas or on A&M its just that those two teams played that bad. Need to come a little stronger with the arguments wide-e

[jtk1519]

White handing off to Griffin? lets see, in the 63-14 debacle I believe it was Josh Hypul who was QB, the following year White split time with Hybl and the next year I believe Hybl led OU to a 35-24 victory, so in no time was White ever handing the ball off to Griffin as a starting QB against Texas while running up the score.
Now as far as Stoops running the score up, that is the most rediculous thing I have heard, esp coming from a Texas fan, i mean are we crying out for sympathy? Stoops was not running up the score on Texas or on A&M its just that those two teams played that bad. Need to come a little stronger with the arguments wide-e

Your right there, but White was in the game throwing a TD pass in the fourth quarter against Texas with his team already up by 37 during the 2003 (White's Heisman year) edition of the RRS.

I sure cant criticize Stoops for running up the score though. I know I wouldnt be the least bit upset if Texas hung 65 on BlowU. I also enjoyed that 77-0 game. ;)

[farmerfan]

I also enjoyed that 77-0 game. ;)

Im sure you did, had to be a nice thought knowing that A&M was on the receicing end of a blowout that took attention away from the Texas game that year. I still cant get over Marcus Jasmin (I believe thats who it was) going all crazy when that OU RB litterally fell down to avoid scoring another TD yet he thought he was the one who made the tackle . That is one of the only games I have ever seen in major college football where if a team wanted to, they actually could have scored a 100pts.
I could actually see Texas putting up monster numbers against OU this year, I believe that this is the year they will end the losing streak, I just have a wild feeling that Texas will beat OU and will do it quite easily, mainly due to VY but I think that he will get great production out of Shipley and Sweed. I also think Sylvin and Ramonce will have a decent game due to the attention that Young will be receiving. It actually pains me to say that, but I could see it happening, for once I think the big game on Texas schedule this year is at the Shoe against The Ohio State University, and not OU, it is going to be great to see Young go up against that defense, as it has been one of the best over the past few years, and no team tackles as well as OSU. Should be a interesting year.

[jtk1519]

Im sure you did, had to be a nice thought knowing that A&M was on the receicing end of a blowout that took attention away from the Texas game that year. I still cant get over Marcus Jasmin (I believe thats who it was) going all crazy when that OU RB litterally fell down to avoid scoring another TD yet he thought he was the one who made the tackle . That is one of the only games I have ever seen in major college football where if a team wanted to, they actually could have scored a 100pts.

My liking of that game has nothing at all to do with Texas that year. It has everything to do with these two morons...

http://www.jcdenton40.com/BullittDance.wmv
http://www.jcdenton40.com/JollyDance.wmv

I wish Stoops would have gone all out and hung another few TDs on these clowns.

[farmerfan]

It was johnny jolly not Marcus Jasmin, so even before his dance at 77-0, were you still enjoying the beating that the ags were getting? I to find those two as being clowns and Franchonie should have never let them step on the football field again after that incident, pretty childish.

[dragonfootballfan]

In that 77-0 game wasn't there a running clock in the fourth quarter. I think the game could have been totally different if in the first play of the game the Texas A&M wideout had caught that wide open pass where he could have scored a touchdown. After that the team fell apart and it was great to see.

[wide-e-wide]

4th 14:53 OU - Clayton, Mark 38 yd pass from White, Jason (DiCarlo, Trey kick), 4-52 1:22, OU 58 - UT 13
02:06 OU - Jones, Kejuan 1 yd run (DiCarlo, Trey kick), 8-23 4:20, OU 65 - UT 13
(box score from '03)

It was Kejuan Jones not Griffin...but the point was White was in the game...the whole freakin' game. He was always in the whole game...that's why River's stats are better than White's. Do you really think Stoops would take his starter out? He's such a class act....but remember...if you run up the score on people....IT AIN'T NO FUN, WHEN THE RABBIT'S GOT THE GUN...payback is a (bleep).

[farmerfan]

Man Randy Galloway would have a field day with you wide-e; to steal a line from the Great one, as I stated before, you are sounding like the whiny orange. Maybe Texas should have been defending the pass better than they were, and maybe their was a situation that called for Stoops running up the score, If I remember correctly some Texas players tried to get in the OU players head and some words were exchanged when the UT players went to the OU side of the field during warmups.
You also sound like mackymack has not never ran up the score either, if I remember correctly I believe he put up 66 this past year against UNT and thier have been countless other games when he put 50 or 60 up, lets see what Texas would do given the chance to run the score up on OU, maybe thats why the Stoopser is in Macks head, because nice guys finish last. This is a new low for a Texas fan, to actually complain that some team was running up the score on them, wait for this year and you will see that Mack and company will do it to some poor team, and given the chance will do it to OU as well, we live in a day and age where margin of victory is crucial for the final standings.

[dragonsdaddy]

remember while you are crying about the sips lack of performance, that ou was working with a set of rules governing the bscs computers that required coaches to run up scores whenever and whereever possible.

[jtk1519]

I kinda feel bad for Stoops and a lot of coaches. When margin of victory played such a huge role in the BS standings, it almost forced teams to "run up the score" in order to improve their standings in the BS polls.

I'm a Longhorn fan all the way, but I do have a good amount of respect for Bob Stoops and what he has done. I'm not at all happy with him letting that nut job Dvoracek back on the team, but that's another thread all together. Stoops however has brought a certain amount of respect and class back to that program. I dont think you can say the same thing about Stoops that was said of some of his predecessors. I just get the feeling that he does things the right way. Dont get me wrong, I want Texas to beat the hell out of BlowU every year, but I wont be upset if Stoops & Co. win every other game on their schedule.

[farmerfan]

[QUOTE=jtk1519]I'm not at all happy with him letting that nut job Dvoracek back on the team, but that's another thread all together. QUOTE]

Well it was either that, or Dusty would have used his OU connection through good ol JR to get a contract in the WWE.

[dragonfootballfan]

Well it was either that, or Dusty would have used his OU connection through good ol JR to get a contract in the WWE.
I bet he would come out with a big baseball bat too. I respected stoops a lot more before he threw his secondary under the bus and blamed them for the loss in the Orange Bowl.

[wide-e-wide]

It is a sign of no class when you are passing the ball in the 4th quarter and you are up by 5 or 6 TD's. If your dumb enough to leave your starting QB in a game like that....then I would be forced to pull a John Chaney and send in some goons. You'll still beat me by 5 TD's but your QB is out for the year.

[farmerfan]

whiny, talk to me this year after Texas does that to some team, if im not mistaken, Benson was in some games late this past season as well, you know as long as someone is still out their playing football, then you cant fault the effort by anyone, its not OU's fault that Texas decided not to cover anyone that day. What do you expect, the backups to come in get their chance to play, and then just lay down cause the lead is to big, how else do you evaluate what you have coming back. Paul Thompson played a lot of the fourth quarter that game, he only threw 3 passes all game, how else would OU evaluate him if all he did was handoff, heck im sure he could have handed off and OU could have gone the distance on the ground and youd still be complaining about it. Just wait you will see that macky mack does the same thing.

[wide-e-wide]

How good of an evaluation can you get? Their teams was up by 500 points...is that a realistic game atmosphere? You could evaluate him better in Stoops' front yard...

Regardless...the dude has no class. Jason White is and always was a bumb. And if Texas does have a chance to run up the score on OU...I hope they show some integrity and run it up the middle for 3 plays and punt.

[jtk1519]

How good of an evaluation can you get? Their teams was up by 500 points...is that a realistic game atmosphere? You could evaluate him better in Stoops' front yard...

Regardless...the dude has no class. Jason White is and always was a bumb. And if Texas does have a chance to run up the score on OU...I hope they show some integrity and run it up the middle for 3 plays and punt.

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with you. White was the ultimate college football player in my book. He's not the most talented guy and he was helped by good talent around him, but that kid is tough as hell and he was a tremendous team player. In a day and age where college football is littered with "me first" idiots like Maurice Clarrett and others, guys like Jason White are a much needed breath of fresh air, and for that reason, he has my respect.

[farmerfan]

jtk
Rather or not you like hearing this, it is comments like that last one you posted that garners you the respect you deserve on this board. In my mind you and Wide e are perfect examples of the typical fans from schools around this country. You realize the respect that OU and White deserve and will admit to it, while others have a hard time to recognize it. While we may disagree on about 99% of college football, you seem like one to sit down at a game with, have a cold one and enjoy the atmosphere as well as the game and possibly engage in some football talk.

[jtk1519]

I guess I hold guys like Jason White up there with the likes of Major Applewhite. No, they arent great athelets, but what they lack physically, they more than make up for with their leadership, minds and hearts. I'll take 22 guys like that over 100 of the prima donna 5 star recruited, 1st round draft pick idiots that we see all too much of now days.

[farmerfan]

The Major, even I could not find anything to fault with that guy, and it is true, it would be nice to see more guys like him and White on the field these days. Didn't Major just go with the former DC to Syracuse? if so, I am shocked that Deloss and Mack allowed him to get away. Compared to Greg Davis anyone is a genuis, but Major would more than hold his own as a cordinatior, shocked that he has not become one yet, but he will much sooner than later.

[jtk1519]

The Major, even I could not find anything to fault with that guy, and it is true, it would be nice to see more guys like him and White on the field these days. Didn't Major just go with the former DC to Syracuse? if so, I am shocked that Deloss and Mack allowed him to get away. Compared to Greg Davis anyone is a genuis, but Major would more than hold his own as a cordinatior, shocked that he has not become one yet, but he will much sooner than later.

Major needs the time away, and I think it will be good for him. He needs to work with various other coaches so he can learn from them and really round out his resume. I expect him to work his way up the ranks at Syracuse and I wont be a bit surprised to see him as an OC either at Syracuse or at another college within a few years. After that, if Texas is smart, they'll bring Major back as a QB coach or maybe even OC. The only thing I can see preventing that is if Todd Dodge works his way down to Austin. It would be awesome to see Dodge come in as a QB coach and then work his way to the OC job. To have have Dodge and Major on the same coaching staff is this Texas fans idea of Heaven. Major is still young... I dont know if he's 25 yet. He needs to learn under some good coaches around the country and I think Mack Brown and Frank Robinson isnt too bad a start, but he needs more. There will always be a place for Major on the 40 acres.

[wide-e-wide]

jtk
Rather or not you like hearing this, it is comments like that last one you posted that garners you the respect you deserve on this board. In my mind you and Wide e are perfect examples of the typical fans from schools around this country. You realize the respect that OU and White deserve and will admit to it, while others have a hard time to recognize it. While we may disagree on about 99% of college football, you seem like one to sit down at a game with, have a cold one and enjoy the atmosphere as well as the game and possibly engage in some football talk.


Man it 7 in the morning, and I read "sit down at a game and have a cold one" and suddenly I can't wait for football season. You described me to a "t"...you just left out the part about me screaming vulgar language and talking about Mack Brown's mama...haha

[dragonsdaddy]

wide you"re killing me. i am just the opposite about mack. i want him to stay where he is, pulling hard on the reins to control the juggernaut that could be in the tea sips.

[wide-e-wide]

Oh no...don't get me wrong...I love him to death...but he can piss me off quicker than any coach ever...A lot of it was his O-coodinator..but Mack took the verbal abuse.

[jtk1519]

Mack takes a lot of heat for stuff he probably shouldnt. The heat should go to Greg Davis because it is Greg Davis who runs the offense. However, Mack does deserve a fair amount of critisizm because if Davis isnt getting the job done, it's Mack's job to go another direction (see DC Carl Reece for an example). Mack shouldnt have to explain why the offense gets so conservative during a certain game, but he should have to explain why a certain someone is still on the payroll. Mack is not the problem and he never has been, but there is a problem and it is Mack's job to fix that problem. If he doesnt, then Mack become a part of that problem.

[wide-e-wide]

That was almost like "who's on first?"
Problem...yadda yadda...problem...but he's not the
problem....yadda ...not his problem...could be the problem...
yadda...blah...blah...problem...

Dang, dog....I had to actually concentrate on that one...hahaha.

[jtk1519]

That was almost like "who's on first?"
Problem...yadda yadda...problem...but he's not the
problem....yadda ...not his problem...could be the problem...
yadda...blah...blah...problem...

Dang, dog....I had to actually concentrate on that one...hahaha.

I had to read it twice myself and I typed it. :confused: :D

[dragonsdaddy]

let's make this easier for the mislexic among us

yes or no--is mack a problem?

[wide-e-wide]

The jury is still out on that one...we will see this year.
Alumni can only take so much...if you lose to OU 6 times in
a row and quickly you become public enemy #1.

[dragonfootballfan]

let's make this easier for the mislexic among us

yes or no--is mack a problem?
I will have to say no. If you remember where Texas was before Mack you can see all that he has accomplished. I also think that he will get over the hump sooner or later.

[dragonsdaddy]

how about swapping a win in rrs for a loss to the ags? not really that far fetched. add in a loss to ohiosu, and a three-way tie for first, so the monkey is kind of off, and they get a ring. i bet he would get more grief if the ags win 2 in a row, than 5 to okies.

[wide-e-wide]

A loss to aggy wouldn't go over well.
Would I trade a RRS win for a loss to aggy?
No way!!!!
a loss to aggy is the worst...they would act as if they
just won the freakin' Super Bowl....


aggy might want to concentrate on beating Baylor first and then kinda work
their way up...

[jtk1519]

let's make this easier for the mislexic among us

yes or no--is mack a problem?

No... not yet.

The best case for Mack is to look at where Texas was before he got here and where they are now. Mack is also too valuable as a recruiter.

What is the problem is the OC. A couple of years ago the problem was the OC and the DC, but a change was made on defense and you see how it is paying off. A change like that on offense is what's needed.

What many people dont realize is that Mack, like most coaches at big programs (Stoops, Carroll, Carr, etc.), doesnt do a whole lot of coaching. They dont usually call the plays on offense or defense. They turn the coaching duties over to their coordinators and step back to oversee everything.

[dragonfootballfan]

Mack actually over the past two seasons has said that he is going to take a more active role with the offense. I hope that after this season if GD does not change Mack makes a change

[wide-e-wide]

Mack is running out of next years...
Taking on Ohio State and OU is gonna be tough...
aggy will be tougher to beat this season...
He's definitely on the clock

[farmerfan]

Here is a scenerio I am going to propose, take it for what its worth and then please add your insight. What if over the next few years, the ags were to start beating texas every other year, say when its at kyle, if the OU trend does not improve as well, is Mack gone, does a win this year get him some time, if the he were to lose two or three more in a row after that win?
It is also widely known that Norm Chow wants to be a HC someday, yes he is the highest paid cordinatior in the NFL right now, but we have all seen what College offenses have done in the NFL, Texas has the money to make him a offer he can not refuse, does anyone see Texas possibly making a run at hiring Chow if Mack can't get that confrence title or National title?
If macky mack were to get the boot, or resign under presure, who would Texas fans like to see as their next head coach? If Mack does not get the boot, and is forced to make a decision to replace Davis, who would Texas fans like to see take over the offense?
As I stated earlier, I think out of all the years, this year is Texas best shot at ending the October curse in Dallas, however the Ags will be a bit tougher and tOSU will be as tough a game as the horns play all year, so does the clock strike midnight if he were to lose two games this year and somehow not win the Big 12 but beat OU?

[wide-e-wide]

You know what?...the way the coaching world is today...who knows?
The guys you think should get fired don't...and the ones that probably
deserve more time get canned. I think Mack is running out of years. If he were to drop a loss to OU this season...he may survive...but if UT is on the receiving end of butt-whuppins from OU and aggy---I don't see him being around long.

Who would be a good replacement? Chow would be nice...but the timing would have to be perfect to get him away from the NFL. dunno...let's just hope that Horns fans don't have to worry about all of this.

[dragonfootballfan]

One of the many reasons that I do not want to get rid of Mack is because I do not know who they would replace him with. I would much rather see Mack replace Greg Davis, but I am not sure if that will ever happen. If Mack starts dropping games to the Aggies then I am sure that he will be on the hot seat. I think that the only thing that is keeping him afloat is that he does not lose to A&M that much.

[wide-e-wide]

Exactamundo...losing to OU is one thing..but couple that with a loss to
aggy...and heads will roll...I can promise you that is no bueno...

[jtk1519]

Mack isnt running out of years. There is a reason he was given a 10 year contract extension. I personally believe Mack's job was in danger around the middle of last season. Here's why...

Much was made of Mack's "pleading" to get into the BCS. When was the last time anybody saw Mack show any kind of backbone? When was the last time you saw Mack stand up for his team in such a way? I sure cant recall. It is my belief that he was fighting for his job. At the time, Steve Spurrier was shopping himself around and much had been made of Spurrier's liking of Texas. If Texas had lost that game to Kansas or aggy, I dont know if Mack would be around.

If you look very carefully at the timing of that contract extension, there is a direct connection between the timing of that extension and the hiring of Steve Spurrier by S. Carolina. Spurrier was hired in Nov... Mack's contract was extended in Dec. It is further my belief that had Spurrier not signed with another team, Mack would not have received his extension.

It is my opinion that Steve Spurrier is the only coach that could have unseated Mack. Norm Chow isnt going to do that. He's been a fine assistant, but I dont see any of the elite level schools taking a chance on a guy that has never been an HC. A mid-level school like Tech, Ole' Miss, etc. might, but I cant see the big boys taking that kind of chance. Spurrier was a proven winner and I think he could have possibly had the Texas job if he had waited. Now that Spurrier is off the market, Mack is set for a while.

Now, after saying all that, Mack's job is not in danger, but some on that coaching staff might be. Carl Reece was forced into leaving and he may not be the only one. If Texas exhibits any of the offensive hiccups it did last year, i fully expect Greg Davis to be gone. Mack knows what he has. He knows this is arguably the most talented and experienced bunch he has had on both sides of the ball in his career. He knows that the stars have aligned in a way that shows a direct path to Pasadena. He also knows just how rapidly and amazingly the defense improved when he made a change at coordinator. If the Texas OC job does open up, you can expect the very best offensive minds in the nation to jump at the chance to coach these kids. Furthermore, if the offense were to improve under a new OC the way the defense did under it's new DC, people may be calling Mack's 10 year contract extension a brilliant move on the part of The University of Texas.

Mack has been so much more agressive since the Rose Bowl. You saw what he has done recruiting wise. His interviews and comments have been much more honest and void of the political correctness that used to drive me up the wall. He's just telling it how it is and this is something we really havent seen in Mack. Gone are the passive days of Mack Brown when he used to tell ESPN that it is just an honor to wear burnt orange. Now he's talking about nation championships and such. It is my opinion that this "new" Mack wont hestitate to make changes that need to be made.

[wide-e-wide]

Let's hope bro...I for one am ready for it. I have at least 5 years of
pinned-up hatred that is dying to be unleashed. And your right...Spurrier
was the only real replacement they would have considered. God am I glad that didn't happen. It's bad enough losing to blowU, without having to watch Spurrier cry and throw his visor around too.

[TheDuke]

Mark It Down Boys!!!!!!


We Are Not Losing To Oklahoma This Year!!!!!!!!!!!



Go Horns!!!!!!!

:d :d :d :d

[pack0808]

lol that was funny watching farmerfan and my old buddy i grew up with on the block in wide go at it. i have had a few with farmer myself wide but he is like us and he will never back down from a sport's discussion. you will respect him by the time you are through i promise you. he is just as opnionated and hard headed as we are about our teams. lol he does have great sport's knowledge and that is why i respect him. i bet we would all have a blast if we all had a beer together. :) hey and we had our fair share of sport's and other arguments growing up huh wide?? lol when you have 2 hard head's that are smart ***'s you are going to have a few. :D

[TheDuke]

Few beers too!

[wide-e-wide]

Yeah...my Dad reminded me of one a while back. Something about us helping him carry fire wood...He said he came around the corner in our back yard...and we were like Ali and Frazier!!!hahaha...and every time my mom talks about the good 'ol days she has crazy stories about us too. I only remember one---I said Mike Scott sucked and that he scuffed the ball every single pitch...You went off!!! He does not...yes he does....he does not....yes he does....enter my mom-"what the hell is wrong with you two?" hahahaha

And Mike Scott did scuff the ball by the way...The Mets had the baseballs to prove it. I always get the last word.

[pack0808]

i would scuff the ball also if i could make the ball drop 3 ft in mid air. lol yeah we had a few rumbles in our day but we were always best friends afterwards. :) i had a few fights without about everybody on our block though huh?? ;) we were both skinny as hell back then but we had no fear. remember the jamie w fight when we jumped him over a basketball game or something. lmao oh the good ol days.

[wide-e-wide]

Kind of ...PM me and tell me the details. I think I remember that one
though. We beat him up for talkin' smack. With his ugly *** hook shot and his sister as his fullback...please! dude didn't see it coming.

[LarryFine]

VY plays the right position to win the Heisman and at a big name school, so I wouldn't be surprised.

There are certain factors in winning the Heisman and you can find guys by process of elimination.

#1, only 1 D player ever won it and he was also a great return man and played a little WR. No D only player ever won. Only consider D players who return punts or KO. Even then it is 100-1.

#2 Forget OL because they don't win either.

#3 A WR can win IF he is a great return man too. No WR ever won the Heisman that didn't make plays on special team as well.

#4 That leaves us with RB and QBs. RBs can win, but QBs generally do.

#5 Can't be from a small school any more or an average team. Your team needs to look like it is a conference champion and maybe a national champion. Otherwise, forget it.

#6, it is always helpful to be from a conference supported by a media center. It is not needed, but sure helps.

So VY has a legit shot.

[mtbray]

My liking of that game has nothing at all to do with Texas that year. It has everything to do with these two morons...

http://www.jcdenton40.com/BullittDance.wmv
http://www.jcdenton40.com/JollyDance.wmv

I wish Stoops would have gone all out and hung another few TDs on these clowns.

I can't get those links to work, but I'm guessing it was Melvin Bullitt celebrating like a madman after getting a tackle? He went to my high school and is actually a very classy guy. Do you know anywhere else to find that video, or maybe how to get it to work? (It automatically sent it to Winamp and didn't work)

[jtk1519]

I can't get those links to work, but I'm guessing it was Melvin Bullitt celebrating like a madman after getting a tackle? He went to my high school and is actually a very classy guy. Do you know anywhere else to find that video, or maybe how to get it to work? (It automatically sent it to Winamp and didn't work)

They're working for me. Try right clicking on the links and saving them to your computer. Then you should be able to open them in any media player you want (I use Windows Media Player and it works fine for me).

[dragonsdaddy]

they worked for me too. i forgot how stupid they looked.

[VB Pack Fan]

Have you guys forgot about a certain running back from Oklahoma, if he stays heathly, and put up the numbers,Peterson will run away with Heisman