North Korea!!! THEY ARE ASKING FOR IT

[HUM398]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4245683.html

Do they have a death wish?

What do yall think will happen regarding Our countries actions?

[DragonBand06]

Just challenge them to a football game. If they win, they can keep their missiles or whatever. If we win, they have to destroy all nuclear technology.

[dada]

I serioulsy hope we don't F#$ with N.Korea.....that's like poking a stick in a pile of Fire Ants...We were in Iraqi because "We THOUGHT we had reason to beleive they had WMD's"...while at the same time the North Korean were firing warheads in the ocean screaming "Hey look at me....we have WMD's and you KNOW it"

[CyFallsMom]

Being a child of the Cold War and one who had to do drills for Nuclear attacks during school (like hiding under a desk was going to help!), I would just as soon we don't go back to those days. I spent many days and nights worried that we would be attacked by nuclear bombs just because the adults were all so worried - and we didn't have a bomb shelter either! It's a wonder all of us Boomers aren't in asylums!! I think we came out okay in spite of the fearfulness that was instilled.

I don't know what to think here. Korea is playing a dangerous game but if we go in full of piss, vinegar and bravado, I think it worsens the situation with all the Anti-American feelings out there. You know, maybe France will take care of it for us - NOT!!!

[stevefoxsc]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4245683.html

Do they have a death wish?

What do yall think will happen regarding Our countries actions?


Well for 1 they aint iraq for 2 they aint punks if they do have them they wont bother droping them on us.

[LoneRocket]

Technically we are still at war with N. Korea. A poster on this site about 3 yrs ago said we should be worried about N. Korea instead of invading Iraq because they have weapons and their leader would not think twice about using them.

[dada]

Technically we are still at war with N. Korea. A poster on this site about 3 yrs ago said we should be worried at N. Korea instead of invading Iraq because they have weapons and their leader would not think twice about using them.
Exactly....big difference between a peace treaty and a on going cease fire......For those who've been there (Scooter, Lonny) you know about the daily tension there.

[LUFPAN]

I serioulsy hope we don't F#$ with N.Korea.....that's like poking a stick in a pile of Fire Ants...We were in Iraqi because "We THOUGHT we had reason to beleive they had WMD's"...while at the same time the North Korean were firing warheads in the ocean screaming "Hey look at me....we have WMD's and you KNOW it"

Amen....war with Korea would be be brutal and hand-to-hand. The terrain won't allow for us putting all of our tanks in a big line and just running over people. America would still prevail, but it would be at the largest loss of life since the Vietnam war.

[tigerdback083]

why cant we all just be friends?

[dada]

Amen....war with Korea would be be brutal and hand-to-hand. The terrain won't allow for us putting all of our tanks in a big line and just running over people. America would still prevail, but it would be at the largest loss of life since the Vietnam war.
I was on the DMZ in 94-96...and they were STILL finding underground tunnels leading into American bases that had to be guarded by tanks 24-7.....my question was always...if something happens how can you tell North Koreans from South Koreans who SUPPOSED to be our allies? Not only were we hated by the people and the students who protest daily, but by the ROK Army also....and if we got into it with North Korea, is it safe to say that the former Soviets will just sit back and watch?

[CyFallsMom]

My dad was a US Marine paratrooper during the Korean War and he was a POW for a while as well until he and his fellow inmates made their escape - and I won't go into those gory details - he had nightmares for years over it. He told us stories about all that went on and how crazy those people were and apparently still are. It's a shame that they are still doing this sort of stuff.

[ahsstud]

www.rotten.com/.../kim_jong_il_outside.jpg


i mean you can just look at the guy and see that there's something seriously wrong with him, and not just because of his outfits either.

[LUFPAN]

I was on the DMZ in 94-96...and they were STILL finding underground tunnels leading into American bases that had to be guarded by tanks 24-7.....my question was always...if something happens how can you tell North Koreans from South Koreans who SUPPOSED to be our allies? Not only were we hated by the people and the students who protest daily, but by the ROK Army also....and if we got into it with North Korea, is it safe to say that the former Soviets will just sit back and watch?

The American forces in S. Korea are not large enough to repel a full scale N. Korean invasion and the S. Korean army won't be much help. I'd hate to be on the south side of the DMZ if things start going down hill. We need to get some airsupport up that way quick. If I couldn't tell the difference, I'd just shoot them all. No use taking a chance.

[dada]

The American forces in S. Korea are not large enough to repel a full scale N. Korean invasion and the S. Korean army won't be much help. I'd hate to be on the south side of the DMZ if things start going down hill. We need to get some airsupport up that way quick. If I couldn't tell the difference, I'd just shoot them all. No use taking a chance.
I wasnt that far from the DMZ and we knew we were out manned...they actually called us the "Speed Bump" to Seoul.....we occupy the North Korean just enough to allow the big wigs down south to evacuate.....We had Katusa(Korean aids to the US) livng with us who had family in the north......so can you REALLY trust them?...and like someone else said...the terrain is HORRIBLE and we would be at a HUGE disadvantage.

[LoneRocket]

www.rotten.com/.../kim_jong_il_outside.jpg


i mean you can just look at the guy and see that there's something seriously wrong with him, and not just because of his outfits either.
Lets hope Kim has not seen the movie Team America World Police, it might piss him off more.

[Red Raiders]

Americans have many secret weapons that we don't even notice like the ones on the Discovery Channel "Future Weapons" but thats not all of it and that will give us some advantages but the disadvantages is the cost. North Korea would be tougher than Iraq in the 1990s. If North Korea uses the Nuclear then all the countries will have to go after them. Another scary thing is that they can transfer there stuff to Iran.

[LUFPAN]

I wasnt that far from the DMZ and we knew we were out manned...they actually called us the "Speed Bump" to Seoul.....we occupy the North Korean just enough to allow the big wigs down south to evacuate.....We had Katusa(Korean aids to the US) livng with us who had family in the north......so can you REALLY trust them?...and like someone else said...the terrain is HORRIBLE and we would be at a HUGE disadvantage.

We always referred to the DMZ guys as the speed bumps. And their's no way you can trust slicky boy....he'll steal your radio but leave the music. If a fight breaks out, those guys will run.

[dada]

We always referred to the DMZ guys as the speed bumps. And their's no way you can trust slicky boy....he'll steal your radio but leave the music. If a fight breaks out, those guys will run.
I always wondered how we would go out on field excersises to these "top secret' locations and when we get there...slicky boy is already set up ready to trade for MRE's......we were on guard duty one night wearing NVG's a spotted a light in the dark.....turned out to be a cigarette.....my buddy ran up on slicky boy and got the sh*t kicked out of him like the Principal on "Ferris Buller's Day off"....some funny stuff....came back with two black eyes and a busted lip....slicky boy was trying to steal "crap" out of the porta-johns.


It was scary knowing you were sleepin in mortar range.....and we never knew what was going on...my mom would call in the wee hours of the morning telling me what was going on.....and having a stare down with North Korean Soldiers patrolling the DMZ was one creepy feeling

[dada]

Americans have many secret weapons that we don't even notice like the ones on the Discovery Channel "Future Weapons" but thats not all of it and that will give us some advantages but the disadvantages is the cost. North Korea would be tougher than Iraq in the 1990s. If North Korea uses the Nuclear then all the countries will have to go after them. Another scary thing is that they can transfer there stuff to Iran.
Don't beleive all of that....who do you think invented those future weapons?? they just passed the secrets on to us.

[LUFPAN]

Americans have many secret weapons that we don't even notice like the ones on the Discovery Channel "Future Weapons" but thats not all of it and that will give us some advantages but the disadvantages is the cost. North Korea would be tougher than Iraq in the 1990s. If North Korea uses the Nuclear then all the countries will have to go after them. Another scary thing is that they can transfer there stuff to Iran.

Those weapons will not be enough to slow down a N. Korean invasion.

[LUFPAN]

Don't beleive all of that....who do you think invented those future weapons?? they just passed the secrets on to us.

Most of those weapons are US made and there are some better ones that the public is not aware of but they still would not be enough to beat back an invasion.

[dada]

Iraq=pearland....lot of talk...play with you for 3 quaters and will eventually laydown

N.Korea= SLC.......they're gonna try to run up the score.

[LUFPAN]

Iraq=pearland....lot of talk...play with you for 3 quaters and will eventually laydown

N.Korea= SLC.......they're gonna try to run up the score.

Scariest part is that their leaders are willing to sacrifice the whole country and would not be bothered at killing their entire population just to proove a point. If things got bad, they'd go nuclear even if it meant the deaths of their own people.

[dada]

Most of those weapons are US made and there are some better ones that the public is not aware of but they still would not be enough to beat back an invasion.
Technology wise...we are waayyy behind China, Korea...Japan...what's new to us is old to them.

[dada]

Scariest part is that their leaders are willing to sacrifice the whole country and would not be bothered at killing their entire population just to proove a point. If things got bad, they'd go nuclear even if it meant the deaths of their own people.
even scarier....the soldiers are willing to sacrifce themeselves....They don't volunteer to join.....born into it....that's all they know....they will protect and die for their leader they way our parents would for us.

[LUFPAN]

Technology wise...we are waayyy behind China, Korea...Japan...what's new to us is old to them.

I'll disagree with you on that one....in the defense arms business the US is light years ahead of the rest of the world. We sell our secrets (and our weapons) to these guys then the reverse engineer and come up with their own variants.

[dada]

I'll disagree with you on that one....in the defense arms business the US is light years ahead of the rest of the world. We sell our secrets (and our weapons) to these guys then the reverse engineer and come up with their own variants.
Do you really think they have shown their full hand? There are definatley some cards under the table....All that former soviet stuff just didn't disappear....If you're not gonna use it....give it to your buddy and let him use it.

[yankee]

i have always kept my eye on north korea, the situation over there has always intrigued me. i hope the u.n. will get off their butts and actually do something worthwhile (i'm having doubts) because this is one country i don't want to go to war with. i turn 18 in a year and a half, and i'll be the first to admit, those nk soldiers scare the living s*** out of me. brainwashed radicals who will do just about anything for their country. i hope russia and china take a severe stance with north korea to show that it is the world against north korea.

[dada]

i have always kept my eye on north korea, the situation over there has always intrigued me. i hope the u.n. will get off their butts and actually do something worthwhile (i'm having doubts) because this is one country i don't want to go to war with. i turn 18 in a year and a half, and i'll be the first to admit, those nk soldiers scare the living s*** out of me. brainwashed radicals who will do just about anything for their country. i hope russia and china take a severe stance with north korea to show that it is the world against north korea.
Definately someone you dont want to piss off

[Humblefied]

i have always kept my eye on north korea, the situation over there has always intrigued me. i hope the u.n. will get off their butts and actually do something worthwhile (i'm having doubts) because this is one country i don't want to go to war with. i turn 18 in a year and a half, and i'll be the first to admit, those nk soldiers scare the living s*** out of me. brainwashed radicals who will do just about anything for their country. i hope russia and china take a severe stance with north korea to show that it is the world against north korea.

i didnt even think about that. i'm already 18. i could be drafted. That would ruin my life so much...but then again at least I'd be in shape.

[Firebird]

The United States is still the world leader in nearly every field of technology save for consumer electronics, and the only reason we don't lead there is because we aren't interested in building that stuff. Our universities are world leaders in research and attract the best talent in every field from around the world. So are our national labs.

In military technology the gap isn't even close. The US is so far ahead of the rest of the world it isn't even funny, and it is increasing, especially in the big ticket items like submarines and aircraft.

That's why everyone in the world is racing to buy arms and weapons systems from Uncle Sam, and the Chinese and Russians are left selling to states like Venezula, Iran, and other places we aren't willing to work with. The Russians have us outengineered in one category alone, and that is with the AK-47, which is far superior to our light arms.

This isn't to say that a fight with the DPRK would be easy, but there are no secret super weapons floating around that would put the US at a huge military disadvantage.

[Reaganrattler07]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4245683.html

Do they have a death wish?

What do yall think will happen regarding Our countries actions?

The United States, over time, has lost it's set of balls....they know that we, a country full of bleeding heart liberals, wouldn't dare risk life to save many more.

[Humblefied]

The United States, over time, has lost it's set of balls....they know that we, a country full of bleeding heart liberals, wouldn't dare risk life to save many more.

Actually, our country was founded on the principals of not getting involved with foreign affairs. We would just much rather watch the rest of the world crumble and die and then wait for our turn instead of jumping in.

[Reaganrattler07]

Actually, our country was founded on the principals of not getting involved with foreign affairs. We would just much rather watch the rest of the world crumble and die and then wait for our turn instead of jumping in.

If you don't believe that these weapons will be used against us sometime in the future, you are lost.

[Firebird]

The United States, over time, has lost it's set of balls....they know that we, a country full of bleeding heart liberals, wouldn't dare risk life to save many more.


That has nothing to do with it. Put plain and simple, since the end of WWII, the United States has never faced a SERIOUS threat to its security. Ending up on the losing end of WWII would have radically altered the world and the United States' position in the world. The conqences of failure in places like Vietnam, Korea, and now in Iraq and Afghanistan are simply not that dire. Sure, they are unpleasant, but it is not like ANY of these places has the potential to turn into a power rivalling the United States. Simply put, why should the US bleed itself white when the issue isn't that important?

[Reaganrattler07]

That has nothing to do with it. Put plain and simple, since the end of WWII, the United States has never faced a SERIOUS threat to its security. Ending up on the losing end of WWII would have radically altered the world and the United States' position in the world. The conqences of failure in places like Vietnam, Korea, and now in Iraq and Afghanistan are simply not that dire. Sure, they are unpleasant, but it is not like ANY of these places has the potential to turn into a power rivalling the United States. Simply put, why should the US bleed itself white when the issue isn't that important?

If the public is acting the way it is with "little wars", can you imagine a "quality" opponent such as North Korea?

We won WWII partly because we don't have the bleeding hearts that we have today. We had people who knew what they had to do and made the sacrifices.

[farmerfan]

i have always kept my eye on north korea, the situation over there has always intrigued me. i hope the u.n. will get off their butts and actually do something worthwhile (i'm having doubts) because this is one country i don't want to go to war with. i turn 18 in a year and a half, and i'll be the first to admit, those nk soldiers scare the living s*** out of me. brainwashed radicals who will do just about anything for their country. i hope russia and china take a severe stance with north korea to show that it is the world against north korea.

yankee
you are right, something about the East that is a different aniaml than any other part of the world. its a shame that much of the focus of WW2 is on the European theatre because the Pacific saw the most grusome fighting this world has ever known. Its almost like the NK soldiers have adopted the Japanese Code of Bushido cause they will all fight till the last man. However it seems as if you cant negotiate with them and our only hope seems to be the chinese.

[farmerfan]

If the public is acting the way it is with "little wars", can you imagine a "quality" opponent such as North Korea?

We won WWII partly because we don't have the bleeding hearts that we have today. We had people who knew what they had to do and made the sacrifices.

Very true, but it didnt take long for the revisionist to open their mouths about the dropping of the a-bomb and how we never should have done it. Best move this country ever made was dropping that bomb saved millions of american lives and the whole nation of Japan.

[Reaganrattler07]

Very true, but it didnt take long for the revisionist to open their mouths about the dropping of the a-bomb and how we never should have done it. Best move this country ever made was dropping that bomb saved millions of american lives and the whole nation of Japan.

Clap so you can hear what I'm doing....

May sound cold and heartless, especially to the bleeding hearts, but I'd rather kill thousands of aggressors....than 100 US Soldiers.

[Firebird]

If the public is acting the way it is with "little wars", can you imagine a "quality" opponent such as North Korea?

We won WWII partly because we don't have the bleeding hearts that we have today. We had people who knew what they had to do and made the sacrifices.


You have to ask the question about WHY the public reacts the way they do to the little wars. The big argument against them, if you pay attention, is that a lot of people don't believe that the benefit of winning these wars is worth the cost that it would take to do so. The math changes significantly if people believe that their safety, security, and prosperity is at a great risk. That is also why the folks in these little countries fight so hard against US troops..they have a LOT more at stake than the average US citizen does.

The public knew what was in store if Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan ascended to preminency. But the public ain't stupid--they knew that life in the US would not change significantly if Vietnam went Commie, or if Saddam remained in power in Iraq. That isn't to say the US didn't have worthy goals in both of those places/

People acted rationally in both cases. They responded as one would expect them to given the threat level that came with different situations.

[farmerfan]

Clap so you can hear what I'm doing....

May sound cold and heartless, especially to the bleeding hearts, but I'd rather kill thousands of aggressors....than 100 US Soldiers.

Operation Downfall which was the mainland invasion of Japan scheduled for Dec 1945/Jan 1946 had estimated over a million casualties. It called for roughly 5x the man power as you saw in Normandy and would have been a fight to the death. The US Soldiers would have suffered heavily and the Japs even more. With their mentality at that time we literally would have wiped off a civilization from this earth. After the low altitude fire bombings of Tokyor and other major Japanese cities didn't spark a surrender (more Japanese died in the fire boming than both atomic bombs) the US was left with one last choice before they conducted the mainland invasion. Washington did not want to go through with this invasion for the amounts of life that would have been lost and thank God the Japs came to their senses and surrendered.

[farmerfan]

You have to ask the question about WHY the public reacts the way they do to the little wars. The big argument against them, if you pay attention, is that a lot of people don't believe that the benefit of winning these wars is worth the cost that it would take to do so. The math changes significantly if people believe that their safety, security, and prosperity is at a great risk. That is also why the folks in these little countries fight so hard against US troops..they have a LOT more at stake than the average US citizen does.

The public knew what was in store if Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan ascended to preminency. But the public ain't stupid--they knew that life in the US would not change significantly if Vietnam went Commie, or if Saddam remained in power in Iraq. That isn't to say the US didn't have worthy goals in both of those places/

People acted rationally in both cases. They responded as one would expect them to given the threat level that came with different situations.


It wasnt Japan so much as it was German that provided a major threat. Japans main focus was establishing the Greater East Asia CO-Prosperity sphere giving them a abundance of resources in the SW Pacific. I fully believe they would not have poised near the threat that many make them out to having. Yamma Moto even said it himself before Pear Harbor that the first and second waves will be successfull and maybe for a year afterwards they could control waters in the pacific but it was only a matter of time before the US would regain control of the Pacific. Japans full intentions was establishing itself in Indo-Asia.

[Firebird]

It wasnt Japan so much as it was German that provided a major threat. Japans main focus was establishing the Greater East Asia CO-Prosperity sphere giving them a abundance of resources in the SW Pacific. I fully believe they would not have poised near the threat that many make them out to having. Yamma Moto even said it himself before Pear Harbor that the first and second waves will be successfull and maybe for a year afterwards they could control waters in the pacific but it was only a matter of time before the US would regain control of the Pacific. Japans full intentions was establishing itself in Indo-Asia.

You are correct in some areas, but missing a bit of the big picture.

First of all, Japan was a quite formidable military opponent at the outset of the War. Japan had a modern, world class navy and was equal if not better to the United States in terms of military tech. Case in point-- Japanese aircraft were much better than anything the US could but into the air for the first year of the war. Based on the military situation AT THE TIME of the war, Japan was far more formidable-- the US, following its usual trend, had downsized its miltary drastically after the first war. The actual events of the war reflected this--- Japan pretty much pushed the US around until the Battle of Midway on June 7, 1942.

Where Japan was behind the United State was in latent power-- the overall capacity to gear up the economy to produce a war machine. Japan had the tech and the will, what it didn't have was the resources to produce on the same scale as the US. This was the situation Japan was trying to recticfy by getting established in not only Indo-Asia, but northeast Asia. Had they been successful in their ambitions, it would have been a different story. The United States against a Japan fueld by the wealth of east Asia would have been quite a showdown.

The United States has never faced a potential threat as severe as Germany or Japan. It might someday in China or India. But it is ludicrous to ask the population to make the same sacrifices in Iraq as they did in World War II.

[Reaganrattler07]

You are correct in some areas, but missing a bit of the big picture.

First of all, Japan was a quite formidable military opponent at the outset of the War. Japan had a modern, world class navy and was equal if not better to the United States in terms of military tech. Case in point-- Japanese aircraft were much better than anything the US could but into the air for the first year of the war. Based on the military situation AT THE TIME of the war, Japan was far more formidable-- the US, following its usual trend, had downsized its miltary drastically after the first war. The actual events of the war reflected this--- Japan pretty much pushed the US around until the Battle of Midway on June 7, 1942.

Where Japan was behind the United State was in latent power-- the overall capacity to gear up the economy to produce a war machine. Japan had the tech and the will, what it didn't have was the resources to produce on the same scale as the US. This was the situation Japan was trying to recticfy by getting established in not only Indo-Asia, but northeast Asia. Had they been successful in their ambitions, it would have been a different story. The United States against a Japan fueld by the wealth of east Asia would have been quite a showdown.

The United States has never faced a potential threat as severe as Germany or Japan. It might someday in China or India. But it is ludicrous to ask the population to make the same sacrifices in Iraq as they did in World War II.

I'm not saying they should make sacrifices now as they are not needed. But the public is already in arms about a war that, and lets face it, is producing the fewest number of casualties compared to our past engagements. Obviously, I hate to see the loss of American life but if it is for the greater good of our country, then I believe it is worth it.

The public we have now, I do not think, would be able to have the mentatlity it did during WWII to defeat a China or India. Parts of the country, I believe we could, but we would not be totally united. I just hope they don't find ways of destroying our nuclear capabilities.

[GoOwls]

I'm not saying they should make sacrifices now as they are not needed. But the public is already in arms about a war that, and lets face it, is producing the fewest number of casualties compared to our past engagements. Obviously, I hate to see the loss of American life but if it is for the greater good of our country, then I believe it is worth it.

The public we have now, I do not think, would be able to have the mentatlity it did during WWII to defeat a China or India. Parts of the country, I believe we could, but we would not be totally united. I just hope they don't find ways of destroying our nuclear capabilities.

Fight 'em here or fight'em there.

We've seen what they can do here........I'll take there.

BTW, yes I do have a stake in this fight.....two sons in the Army.......one was in the 4th ID that went into Iraq first and spent a year there and is going to be re-deployed again in 8 months, the other just got back in May from a years stint in Afghanistan supporting a Special Forces group on patrols and anti-Taliban actions.

[Reaganrattler07]

Fight 'em here or fight'em there.

We've seen what they can do here........I'll take there.

BTW, yes I do have a stake in this fight.....two sons in the Army.......one was in the 4th ID that went into Iraq first and spent a year there and is going to be re-deployed again in 8 months, the other just got back in May from a years stint in Afghanistan supporting a Special Forces group on patrols and anti-Taliban actions.

Tell your sons Thank you from me.

[Packattack94]

It's not just North Korea, it is also 'RED' China, largest communist country in the world. Who do you think supports NK?

[ktCarl]

I thought they just wanted nukes for generating electricity?
That's all Iran wants nukes for.

[farmerfan]

You are correct in some areas, but missing a bit of the big picture.

First of all, Japan was a quite formidable military opponent at the outset of the War. Japan had a modern, world class navy and was equal if not better to the United States in terms of military tech. Case in point-- Japanese aircraft were much better than anything the US could but into the air for the first year of the war. Based on the military situation AT THE TIME of the war, Japan was far more formidable-- the US, following its usual trend, had downsized its miltary drastically after the first war. The actual events of the war reflected this--- Japan pretty much pushed the US around until the Battle of Midway on June 7, 1942.

Where Japan was behind the United State was in latent power-- the overall capacity to gear up the economy to produce a war machine. Japan had the tech and the will, what it didn't have was the resources to produce on the same scale as the US. This was the situation Japan was trying to recticfy by getting established in not only Indo-Asia, but northeast Asia. Had they been successful in their ambitions, it would have been a different story. The United States against a Japan fueld by the wealth of east Asia would have been quite a showdown.

The United States has never faced a potential threat as severe as Germany or Japan. It might someday in China or India. But it is ludicrous to ask the population to make the same sacrifices in Iraq as they did in World War II.


At the time of Pearl Harbor Roosevelt had already started to gear up for a movement of total war. Yes we were the only country at the time who could produce a total war output in our economy, Germany came close during WW1 but Japan never could reache the economic power that the US could generate. THat is why Yamma Moto who had studied at Harvard and had great respect for the US had told Hito that it was only a matter of time before Japan would be ousted. That is one reason why the political objectives of Japan focues primarily on the Pacfic and into indo asia, never did they have intentions of becoming a world power that would effect the US. One of the many reasons we went into WW2 with a Eurpoe first approach. Even with the disadvantage of being the only country that had a two ocean Navy it was only a matter of time before our Navy would over power Japan. The Japs did not have the carrier capacity to keep the war out at sea which is why we were able to initate our island hopping strategy.
THe whole big picture was that Japan entered the war for one reason, to establish the Sphere of dominance, theyfelt the attack at Pearl Harbor would allow them to do that and would not have to engage in a great battle with the US. They underestimated us big time in that area.

[farmerfan]

I'm not saying they should make sacrifices now as they are not needed. But the public is already in arms about a war that, and lets face it, is producing the fewest number of casualties compared to our past engagements. Obviously, I hate to see the loss of American life but if it is for the greater good of our country, then I believe it is worth it.

The public we have now, I do not think, would be able to have the mentatlity it did during WWII to defeat a China or India. Parts of the country, I believe we could, but we would not be totally united. I just hope they don't find ways of destroying our nuclear capabilities.

I somewhat disagree with that. I do believe that the peple of this country both democrat and republican would have the mentality if it called for it. Pearl Harbor did it for WW2, while Roosevelt was long in the process of gearing up for war. The Zimmerman telegram and the sinking of the Luisitania as well as another passenger liner did it somewhat for WW1. If the threat heats up then you can bet the citizens of this country will rise up and unite.

[lonny23]

Exactly....big difference between a peace treaty and a on going cease fire......For those who've been there (Scooter, Lonny) you know about the daily tension there.
Scooter is there now. I was there from 1997-2001. There were occasional skirmishes between the South and North while I was there and they even killed some North people trying to come ashore in Pusan one time. The North is poor and they're doing this to gain some kind of political or monetary gain. I don't know if they would attack us or not, but they're trying to use the threat to get something.

[lonny23]

Amen....war with Korea would be be brutal and hand-to-hand. The terrain won't allow for us putting all of our tanks in a big line and just running over people. America would still prevail, but it would be at the largest loss of life since the Vietnam war.
That is very true. The South is about 80% mountainous and all the major cities are in the areas where there is some flat land. Even Pusan on the sea is built all around the mountains in town. Seoul is the largest flat area in the country. The North is even more mountainous and colder than the South.

[lonny23]

I was on the DMZ in 94-96...and they were STILL finding underground tunnels leading into American bases that had to be guarded by tanks 24-7.....my question was always...if something happens how can you tell North Koreans from South Koreans who SUPPOSED to be our allies? Not only were we hated by the people and the students who protest daily, but by the ROK Army also....and if we got into it with North Korea, is it safe to say that the former Soviets will just sit back and watch?
There were tunnels in 2001, too. You can't tell the difference between the guys from the North and South.

[drgnbkr]

Being a child of the Cold War and one who had to do drills for Nuclear attacks during school (like hiding under a desk was going to help!), I would just as soon we don't go back to those days. I spent many days and nights worried that we would be attacked by nuclear bombs just because the adults were all so worried - and we didn't have a bomb shelter either! It's a wonder all of us Boomers aren't in asylums!! I think we came out okay in spite of the fearfulness that was instilled.

I don't know what to think here. Korea is playing a dangerous game but if we go in full of piss, vinegar and bravado, I think it worsens the situation with all the Anti-American feelings out there. You know, maybe France will take care of it for us - NOT!!!

I don't know, you were pretty cranky today..maybe it was all that under the desk trauma..:D

[drgnbkr]

I thought they just wanted nukes for generating electricity?
That's all Iran wants nukes for.

I heard today that akdeminijad, or whatever that knucklehead running Iran is called, was at the test....what a pair! I think Kim jong Ill or whatever, gets on the others shoulders and they have chicken fights with normal sized humans.....

[lonny23]

Hey, guys. Please be careful what you say and discuss. We don't want to give stuff away.

[farmerfan]

I heard today that akdeminijad, or whatever that knucklehead running Iran is called, was at the test....what a pair! I think Kim jong Ill or whatever, gets on the others shoulders and they have chicken fights with normal sized humans.....

I guess Kim's not so ronrey anymore. :D

[drgnbkr]

Hey, guys. Please be careful what you say and discuss. We don't want to give stuff away.

Huh?

[lonny23]

yankee
you are right, something about the East that is a different aniaml than any other part of the world. its a shame that much of the focus of WW2 is on the European theatre because the Pacific saw the most grusome fighting this world has ever known. Its almost like the NK soldiers have adopted the Japanese Code of Bushido cause they will all fight till the last man. However it seems as if you cant negotiate with them and our only hope seems to be the chinese.
East Asians are:

1. The hardest people in the world to get along with.
2. The meanest people in the world.

[Sacred Ground]

It's not just North Korea, it is also 'RED' China, largest communist country in the world. Who do you think supports NK?

You are right on here! North Korea is little brother to China. NK receives virtually everything from big brother. China is the real threat to the U.S., I wouldn't be surprised if China told NK to set off the nuke, so China can act the tough guy to NK so they can keep exporting chinese trinkets to the U.S.
The only thing our gonadless government can do is impose sanctions against NK, and every country will say yes to sanctions, even China and Russia. The people of North Korea east rice for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Impose sanctions and they will eat rice for brunch and dinner, while China would continue to provide all their energy needs. Afterall who is going to watch the Chinese/NK border to make sure China doesn't provide support.

[lonny23]

You have to ask the question about WHY the public reacts the way they do to the little wars. The big argument against them, if you pay attention, is that a lot of people don't believe that the benefit of winning these wars is worth the cost that it would take to do so. The math changes significantly if people believe that their safety, security, and prosperity is at a great risk. That is also why the folks in these little countries fight so hard against US troops..they have a LOT more at stake than the average US citizen does.

The public knew what was in store if Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan ascended to preminency. But the public ain't stupid--they knew that life in the US would not change significantly if Vietnam went Commie, or if Saddam remained in power in Iraq. That isn't to say the US didn't have worthy goals in both of those places/

People acted rationally in both cases. They responded as one would expect them to given the threat level that came with different situations.
The people changed and the media has affected that. We no longer blindly trust the government like we did at one time. That's why we don't have the same support. Our government also went soft and no longer wants us to fight wars to win and we fight to kinda look good now, but try to be successful. It doesn't work.

[Sacred Ground]

I guess Kim's not so ronrey anymore. :D

Kim jong Sick is a pot bellied pig that walks upright!

[lonny23]

It wasnt Japan so much as it was German that provided a major threat. Japans main focus was establishing the Greater East Asia CO-Prosperity sphere giving them a abundance of resources in the SW Pacific. I fully believe they would not have poised near the threat that many make them out to having. Yamma Moto even said it himself before Pear Harbor that the first and second waves will be successfull and maybe for a year afterwards they could control waters in the pacific but it was only a matter of time before the US would regain control of the Pacific. Japans full intentions was establishing itself in Indo-Asia.
All Japan had to do was keep from attacking us and they had it. I mean they had been terrorizing Asia for like 30 years and we did nothing. We only attacked after Pearl Harbor.

[drgnbkr]

You are right on here! North Korea is little brother to China. NK receives virtually everything from big brother. China is the real threat to the U.S., I wouldn't be surprised if China told NK to set off the nuke, so China can act the tough guy to NK so they can keep exporting chinese trinkets to the U.S.
The only thing our gonadless government can do is impose sanctions against NK, and every country will say yes to sanctions, even China and Russia. The people of North Korea east rice for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Impose sanctions and they will eat rice for brunch and dinner, while China would continue to provide all their energy needs. Afterall who is going to watch the Chinese/NK border to make sure China doesn't provide support.

Chuck Norris?

[lonny23]

It's not just North Korea, it is also 'RED' China, largest communist country in the world. Who do you think supports NK?
I'm glad somebody mentioned that. NK borders China and Russia.

[Sacred Ground]

One more post lonny and your at 20k. Make it a good one.

[Firebird]

East Asians are:

1. The hardest people in the world to get along with.
2. The meanest people in the world.

This kind of stuff is counter productive. It is all relative to what side of the aisle you are on. If you talk to an East Asian, they will most likely tell you that:

1. Westerners are the rudest people in the world
2. They are impossible to work with because they can't follow basic rules of social interaction.
3. Aggressive and domineering

We are both inscrutable to one another.

[Firebird]

The people changed and the media has affected that. We no longer blindly trust the government like we did at one time. That's why we don't have the same support. Our government also went soft and no longer wants us to fight wars to win and we fight to kinda look good now, but try to be successful. It doesn't work.


Our government and people don't fight wars to win because there hasn't been a war we HAVE to win lately.

It's not like we are the only ones to experience this phenom. Look at the Soviet Union...over 20 million Red Army soldiers and almost 40 million citizens were ready to go through the meat grinder against Nazi Germany, but they sure weren't ready to tolerate that kind of stuff against Afghanistan, or recently, Chechnya.

[lonny23]

I somewhat disagree with that. I do believe that the peple of this country both democrat and republican would have the mentality if it called for it. Pearl Harbor did it for WW2, while Roosevelt was long in the process of gearing up for war. The Zimmerman telegram and the sinking of the Luisitania as well as another passenger liner did it somewhat for WW1. If the threat heats up then you can bet the citizens of this country will rise up and unite.
There are too many people in this country who don't support US objectives to get the same support as the past.

[lonny23]

You are right on here! North Korea is little brother to China. NK receives virtually everything from big brother. China is the real threat to the U.S., I wouldn't be surprised if China told NK to set off the nuke, so China can act the tough guy to NK so they can keep exporting chinese trinkets to the U.S.
The only thing our gonadless government can do is impose sanctions against NK, and every country will say yes to sanctions, even China and Russia. The people of North Korea east rice for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Impose sanctions and they will eat rice for brunch and dinner, while China would continue to provide all their energy needs. Afterall who is going to watch the Chinese/NK border to make sure China doesn't provide support.
China is the country that I'm most concerned about.

[lonny23]

One more post lonny and your at 20k. Make it a good one.
I think it was. I did a thread for 20K!:D

[Firebird]

There are too many people in this country who don't support US objectives to get the same support as the past.


You are operating under a hind sight view of US history here Lonny. Even during the WWII era, there were plenty...plenty of voices opposed to US entry into the war. Up till Pearl Harbor, there was a large and vocal contingent of Nazi sympathizers and isolationists pushing hard to keep America neutral and decrying early efforts to thwart Japanese and German expansion.

September 11, though horrible and deserving of a quick and large response, was not the same as Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor was a declaration of war by a large, modern, and sophisticated imperial state. 9/11 was perpetrated by a handful of fanatics pining for the 11th century, with the aid of weak, failed states. People, rightly, recognize that the current threat is nowhere near as large as that in the 1940's. There is a legitamte debate about how the US can best accomplish its goals, and whether some of those goals are worthwhile. I happen to be fairly conservative on this stuff, but I am not ready to declare the US populace spineless. We are a democracy, we have dissenting views, but in the face of true danger, we still have what it takes.

[lonny23]

This kind of stuff is counter productive. It is all relative to what side of the aisle you are on. If you talk to an East Asian, they will most likely tell you that:

1. Westerners are the rudest people in the world
2. They are impossible to work with because they can't follow basic rules of social interaction.
3. Aggressive and domineering

We are both inscrutable to one another.
Some of that does apply to Westerners, but especially #2. #1 is common with Asians and so is #3 among themselves. The people of which I spoke are known to torture people and they can be barbaric. While we may be aggressive and not be known to follow certain social interaction rules, we don't fight and argue the same way they do on a daily basis. I didn't say they were hard to get along with because of our relationship with them, I said it because I saw on a daily basis how they interact with each other.

[Sacred Ground]

and your 20k post was excellent Lonny :) amen

[Firebird]

Some of that does apply to Westerners, but especially #2. #1 is common with Asians and so is #3 among themselves. The people of which I spoke are known to torture people and they can be barbaric. While we may be aggressive and not be known to follow certain social interaction rules, we don't fight and argue the same way they do on a daily basis. I didn't say they were hard to get along with because of our relationship with them, I said it because I saw on a daily basis how they interact with each other.


And you would be amazed at how Asians percieve our social actions amongst each other. Chaotic and rude would be among the first adjectives applied. to outsiders, a different culture is nearly always confusing and troubling.

[lonny23]

And you would be amazed at how Asians percieve our social actions amongst each other. Chaotic and rude would be among the first adjectives applied. to outsiders, a different culture is nearly always confusing and troubling.
I don't doubt that. I think our mix of cultures has meant that we've thrown all the rules of order out. My wife hated the Korean social rules and wanted to come to America for more freedom.

[Reaganrattler07]

I somewhat disagree with that. I do believe that the peple of this country both democrat and republican would have the mentality if it called for it. Pearl Harbor did it for WW2, while Roosevelt was long in the process of gearing up for war. The Zimmerman telegram and the sinking of the Luisitania as well as another passenger liner did it somewhat for WW1. If the threat heats up then you can bet the citizens of this country will rise up and unite.

I would hope you're right....but I'm not too confident. Right now politicians would rather concentrate on mudslinging than getting the people who really threaten us. And too many ignorant people have followed certain politicians in their little crusade.

[Red Raiders]

i didnt even think about that. i'm already 18. i could be drafted. That would ruin my life so much...but then again at least I'd be in shape.

I am 18 too and I will have to be draft too but as soon they test my hearing, its bad so they will probably put me in office or I will just have to work in my country as normal life.

[HUM398]

Lets test one of our Nuclear weapons and Nationally televise it.... Then lets see what the rest of the world has to say about them apples... And who ever doenst like it... We point one right at them...

[HUM398]

You are operating under a hind sight view of US history here Lonny. Even during the WWII era, there were plenty...plenty of voices opposed to US entry into the war. Up till Pearl Harbor, there was a large and vocal contingent of Nazi sympathizers and isolationists pushing hard to keep America neutral and decrying early efforts to thwart Japanese and German expansion.

September 11, though horrible and deserving of a quick and large response, was not the same as Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor was a declaration of war by a large, modern, and sophisticated imperial state. 9/11 was perpetrated by a handful of fanatics pining for the 11th century, with the aid of weak, failed states. People, rightly, recognize that the current threat is nowhere near as large as that in the 1940's. There is a legitamte debate about how the US can best accomplish its goals, and whether some of those goals are worthwhile. I happen to be fairly conservative on this stuff, but I am not ready to declare the US populace spineless. We are a democracy, we have dissenting views, but in the face of true danger, we still have what it takes.

Its not so much the american people that are spineless its those that we elect. Though in World WarII we had those that opposed the war, the goverment never considered them....Today we fight political wars, We fight with our hands tied behind our backs and a tooth pick in our mouth. We could shut korea up tonight if we wanted... We could shut Iran up with in minutes...and we could fix the "crisis" in Iraq rather quickly as well... We are no longer governed by people who love this country...We are run by people who want the "power" this is republican and democrats alike... We need Americans in office, Not parisites. (base word for politician Politic)

[LoneRocket]

It's not just North Korea, it is also 'RED' China, largest communist country in the world. Who do you think supports NK?
China controls our banking systems, they purchased a large number US T-bills. If they ever decide to dump those T-Bills on the market it could cause the dollar to lose it's current value. Worse case it could tank, also some of the US factories and jobs that were out sourced to other countries are in China.

[GoOwls]

Scooter is there now. I was there from 1997-2001. There were occasional skirmishes between the South and North while I was there and they even killed some North people trying to come ashore in Pusan one time. The North is poor and they're doing this to gain some kind of political or monetary gain. I don't know if they would attack us or not, but they're trying to use the threat to get something.

My ex-brother-in-law was an Army Scout Sniper and was there in circa 1980-81 and he had to snipe a guy who his patrol spotted crossing the border loaded down with explosives. They saw him with night-vision goggles and got the OK and he nailed him. He had to get out after that, he never has been the same, or so I hear. I haven't seen him since about 1988 when I got divorced.

[mojotrain]

The problem here is we have to many Americans who see a no win situation for America. A bunch of you post like we couldn't win a conflict with north korea or China or anyone. Our military weapons and personel are still far superior to any nation in the world. Before we pull down our pants and say take me but don't hurt me we still have the ultimate hammer. This, just be friends crap, is panty waist. This we can't win is subversive and un American, your part of the problem.
We are in Iraq exactly for the same reason we were in Germany in WW1 and WW2. and Japan in WW2 with the ultimate weapon. We now have a bunch of elected officals in D.C. Who would just rather get along. Once that idea takes hold then we are doomed. The nation with the most people will rule. We are helping that now with the buying of goods produced in China and other places who want us to lose all manafacturing abilities. We do have the hammer and the means to deliver it. They don't. If you have a problem with ever using it again. Just remember Hitler killed more people in Europe that the bombs did in Japan. You should consider electing people who will protect the USA and you at any cost. Or keep posting, woe is us, we whipped.

[mojotrain]

Actually, our country was founded on the principals of not getting involved with foreign affairs. We would just much rather watch the rest of the world crumble and die and then wait for our turn instead of jumping in.

This may be the way you see it but it has never been a practice.

[mojotrain]

The people changed and the media has affected that. We no longer blindly trust the government like we did at one time. That's why we don't have the same support. Our government also went soft and no longer wants us to fight wars to win and we fight to kinda look good now, but try to be successful. It doesn't work.

Lonny we are the goverment! They are not born and knighted to be our leaders. We put them there. Democrats and republicans both at one time focused on keeping America free reguardless the cost. Thats the main reason we pay them to do the job. If they can't keep us free nothing else matters one iota. I mean Color of skin, legal, illegal, global warming , whales, religion and football games just don't matter. They haven't changed in Washington! Weve changed them. It's about 50/50 today. The coming elections will tell you which way America will go.

[mojotrain]

This kind of stuff is counter productive. It is all relative to what side of the aisle you are on. If you talk to an East Asian, they will most likely tell you that:

1. Westerners are the rudest people in the world
2. They are impossible to work with because they can't follow basic rules of social interaction.
3. Aggressive and domineering

We are both inscrutable to one another.

This could relate to football. Take SLC as an example. People think-------------------. Thats what being the best earns you. SLC should not care what lessers think. Should they dilute so others will like them?

[mojotrain]

You are operating under a hind sight view of US history here Lonny. Even during the WWII era, there were plenty...plenty of voices opposed to US entry into the war. Up till Pearl Harbor, there was a large and vocal contingent of Nazi sympathizers and isolationists pushing hard to keep America neutral and decrying early efforts to thwart Japanese and German expansion.

September 11, though horrible and deserving of a quick and large response, was not the same as Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor was a declaration of war by a large, modern, and sophisticated imperial state. 9/11 was perpetrated by a handful of fanatics pining for the 11th century, with the aid of weak, failed states. People, rightly, recognize that the current threat is nowhere near as large as that in the 1940's. There is a legitamte debate about how the US can best accomplish its goals, and whether some of those goals are worthwhile. I happen to be fairly conservative on this stuff, but I am not ready to declare the US populace spineless. We are a democracy, we have dissenting views, but in the face of true danger, we still have what it takes.

I agree on your complete post except 9/11 not comparing to Pearl Harbor. The size of the group has no bearing and the country they repersent has no bearing. Thats a technical point. They attacked the mainland of the United States The Japanese attacted the American fleet at a Island which was not even a state at the time. The response by the United States in both cases was justified. We will fight them sooner or later. Wimps will make it happen on our own soil, Patroits will make it happen in their back yard.

[Firebird]

I agree on your complete post except 9/11 not comparing to Pearl Harbor. The size of the group has no bearing and the country they repersent has no bearing. Thats a technical point. They attacked the mainland of the United States The Japanese attacted the American fleet at a Island which was not even a state at the time. The response by the United States in both cases was justified. We will fight them sooner or later. Wimps will make it happen on our own soil, Patroits will make it happen in their back yard.


Yes, they sure do. A momement's reflection on this should make this clearer. Looking back, with the benefit of hindsight, it seems clear that the US was destined to prevail in the 2nd War. But that wasn't the case in 1941. There was still a real question of how everything would sort itself out. A few missteps by some of the US allies in the war, and all of Europe might very well have been singing "Deutschland Uber Alles" in 1945. There was very litte risk of either Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan indvading and conquering the US, but there was a very real chance that the American Forces might have had to return home and leave Western Europe and the Pacific in the hands of monstrous, evil regimes that were more powerful than us.

9/11 was a terrible, monstrous act. Every single life lost was precious. The people of the United States and its government had a duty to take all steps needed to prevent it from happening again, and to defeat the people who did this to us.

But in the end, it was fundamentally different from the Japanese attack. Our war against Islamic terrorists is not the same as the war against facism. Despite the support these guys have in some backwards corners of the world, their worldview and goals stand about a .001% chance of success. Mostt of it is because most people really DO want freedom, human rights, and the like--even Muslims. There is a good reason why they refer to us as the "Great Satan"-- Satan is a tempter, he seduces Muslims to abandon thier faith for the more worldly pleasures (such as rep. government, equal rights for women, religious freedom) of Western civilization. These guys are not so much fighting us as they are the 21st Century--- a century that we built. They are NOT going to win, they can't win. The question is, how much blood will they shed in pursuit of their quixotic goals.

[LUFPAN]

The problem here is we have to many Americans who see a no win situation for America. A bunch of you post like we couldn't win a conflict with north korea or China or anyone. Our military weapons and personel are still far superior to any nation in the world. Before we pull down our pants and say take me but don't hurt me we still have the ultimate hammer. This, just be friends crap, is panty waist. This we can't win is subversive and un American, your part of the problem.
We are in Iraq exactly for the same reason we were in Germany in WW1 and WW2. and Japan in WW2 with the ultimate weapon. We now have a bunch of elected officals in D.C. Who would just rather get along. Once that idea takes hold then we are doomed. The nation with the most people will rule. We are helping that now with the buying of goods produced in China and other places who want us to lose all manafacturing abilities. We do have the hammer and the means to deliver it. They don't. If you have a problem with ever using it again. Just remember Hitler killed more people in Europe that the bombs did in Japan. You should consider electing people who will protect the USA and you at any cost. Or keep posting, woe is us, we whipped.

I don't think anyone on this site is saying that we couldn't win a war with N. Korea. We are just saying that a war with N. Korea would be long, brutal and bloody. There's enough veterans on this board to know the truth and that is that the small U.S. contingent that is currently there would be all but extinct by the time sufficient help could arrive. Eventually, our soldiers and weapons would prevail, but at great cost of life.

[dada]

I don't think anyone on this site is saying that we couldn't win a war with N. Korea. We are just saying that a war with N. Korea would be long, brutal and bloody. There's enough veterans on this board to know the truth and that is that the small U.S. contingent that is currently there would be all but extinct by the time sufficient help could arrive. Eventually, our soldiers and weapons would prevail, but at great cost of life.
Add this to the equation...we are so spread out defending other parts of the world who's here protecting the house from threats?
These are SOLDIERS...not guys in tank-tops and flip flops with grenade launchers.

[HUM398]

I don't think anyone on this site is saying that we couldn't win a war with N. Korea. We are just saying that a war with N. Korea would be long, brutal and bloody. There's enough veterans on this board to know the truth and that is that the small U.S. contingent that is currently there would be all but extinct by the time sufficient help could arrive. Eventually, our soldiers and weapons would prevail, but at great cost of life.

Im opposed to war and pro blowing the crap out of N.korea. Im not for going to war with them, but to teach them a lesson just bombing the crap out of them. No lose of life. Yes this would Trigger violence at the border, but im a simple guy ...just blow up the border.

Im really just sick and tired of the world.. Europe, Iran,south american and the Asian Communist countries. they are a constant pain in the a**.... If we dont help them we are criticzed...We help them, and we get critized... We try to defend our country and we get critized. We demand that a Terrioist infested country (iran) not make Nukes, and we are viewed as being to aggresive..(hello they wanna kill us) N.Korea doesnt like us so a nuke in thier hands is like putting a nuke in the hands of a Group of radical islamics, but china doesnt wanna back us on sanctions because NK is thier BOY. I have a simple answer to all our problems... We with draw all our support and aid to all countries that like to "hate".. We kick the UN out of New York and send them to france...and proceed to give the world the middle finger.... We only trade with true allies.... If we feel as if we are bein threatened in anyway we just Blow a country up. We see a growing threat...Blow it up. If your not with us your against us..... N.korea wants to have Bilaterial talks..Fine. This is how the conversation is gonna go... :disband your regime or sanctions stay... Disband and turnover all your nukes and facilites for producing them or get blown up.... No deal...fine we wanna test ourselves a nuke on your soil....

We are the country that currently has 10,600 nukes in our stockpile (and thats just what the gov reports it has.... NKorea and thier puny little 7...

[KT2000]

Hum, the last sentence in your post is why countries like Iran/N Korea are in open defiance when told to disarm because the country leading that charge to disarm has an entire stockpile of nukes. It's not hard to see why they say the things they do when looking at things from their vantage point. I don't agree with them by any means, but understand their stubborness to cooperate. The greatest threat to global peace is a nuclear arms race, and Iran/N. Korea fully realize that and will flaunt that power for leverage.

Last year and this year, Iran has run tests of a special ballistic missile earlier this year called the Shehab 3. They openly stated the purpose of a warhead tipped Shehab missile would be for an above-ground explosion to knock out the technological and communication grid of a country. Military people refer to that as a nuclear EMP. The Shehab missile is also apparently equipped with cloaking capabilities so it avoids radar detection before detonating. N Korea and Russia helped supply them with the technology and parts to build that missile.

You can read more about those tests in this article from last year:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47501

I believe N Korea and Iran are obviously working together in defiance of the international community right now. They know no one wants to go to war with them. The US is spread thin enough as it is between Iraq and Afghanistan mainly, and I think that's another reason for the brashness of both Iran and N Korea. Venezuela is another. I believe it's all connected.

Iran's Revolutionary Guard was discovered to have helped fund the Hezbollah's endeavor against Israel recently, and armed them with the rockets they launched into Israel. I don't think that surprised anyone.

Within the next couple of years, I think we'll look back on the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers as the kick start for a much bigger conflict but I hope I'm wrong.

[HUM398]

Hum, the last sentence in your post is why countries like Iran/N Korea are in open defiance when told to disarm because the country leading that charge to disarm has an entire stockpile of nukes. It's not hard to see why they say the things they do when looking at things from their vantage point. I don't agree with them by any means, but understand their stubborness to cooperate. The greatest threat to global peace is a nuclear arms race, and Iran/N. Korea fully realize that and will flaunt that power for leverage.

Last year and this year, Iran has run tests of a special ballistic missile earlier this year called the Shehab 3. They openly stated the purpose of a warhead tipped Shehab missile would be for an above-ground explosion to knock out the technological and communication grid of a country. Military people refer to that as a nuclear EMP. The Shehab missile is also apparently equipped with cloaking capabilities so it avoids radar detection before detonating. N Korea and Russia helped supply them with the technology and parts to build that missile.

You can read more about those tests in this article from last year:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47501

I believe N Korea and Iran are obviously working together in defiance of the international community right now. They know no one wants to go to war with them. The US is spread thin enough as it is between Iraq and Afghanistan mainly, and I think that's another reason for the brashness of both Iran and N Korea. Venezuela is another. I believe it's all connected.

Iran's Revolutionary Guard was discovered to have helped fund the Hezbollah's endeavor against Israel recently, and armed them with the rockets they launched into Israel. I don't think that surprised anyone.

Within the next couple of years, I think we'll look back on the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers as the kick start for a much bigger conflict but I hope I'm wrong.

I agree but they also understand we hesitate to protect ourselves from potential Threats. We are telling the to Disarm, because we can. They shouldnt be in any position to create leverage.... Do understand what im trying to say? We are the worlds Lone Super-power, and we should start acting like it when a threat comes our way. Im tired of appeasing with the enemy... Iran and other Muslim countries view us as weak because of our good nature...But when does the Mighty Giant stop being a Gentle Giant..i feel as if the world is trying to bully us... In my eyes the days of talking things over are over... We told you once, we told you twice...and we even gave you a third chance to stop.... To me our gloves should be coming off. The Europeans have forgotten what we did for them.... The world has forgotten. We have forgotten.

We wanna be everyones friend... But we cant, because the world's nations arent friends....Infact ill go ahead and say the majority of the world dislikes us...Why? Because we dont allow anyone else to become dominant Powers so that we can ensure our own Self-preservation....and frankly thats all i care about, that we stay the Sole super-power...For one purpose: To make sure we stay free

[KT2000]

I respect your opinion, but that's a little too imperialistic for my taste. I think the UN is about the most useless organization on the planet (Dept of Homeland Security not far behind), but also realize it takes some sort of international cooperation to quell threats like what we see in North Korea, Venezuela and Iran in addition to the more faceless threats of terrorism presented by Al Qaeda, the Baathists and Hezbollah among others. That is way too much for one country to handle.

[MavericksOnTheAttack]

if were to go to war with China and North Korea.

We could take over China very fast, just by using bombs and air warfare.
We have much more supplies and vehicles than them.

with North Korea, we could disarm their nuclear warfare before it hits the United States, and if it :cool: does hit the United S:cool:tates it would hit around the western Washington area.

so no worries rlly lol

[dada]

if were to go to war with China and North Korea.

We could take over China very fast, just by using bombs and air warfare.
We have much more supplies and vehicles than them.

with North Korea, we could disarm their nuclear warfare before it hits the United States, and if it :cool: does hit the United S:cool:tates it would hit around the western Washington area.

so no worries rlly lol
I dont think we have "more" of anything when it comes to China lol

[MavericksOnTheAttack]

I dont think we have "more" of anything when it comes to China lol


haha really? I could bring up some figures that would astound you

China has a much greater army than we do, yes.

However our military budget, our weaponry, and our vehicle equipment far outnumber China's

[dada]

haha really? I could bring up some figures that would astound you

China has a much greater army than we do, yes.

However our military budget, our weaponry, and our vehicle equipment far outnumber China's
enough to "TAKE OVER" China?

[MavericksOnTheAttack]

enough to "TAKE OVER" China?

well "take over" was a bad word.

but basically I am trying to convey that we could dismantle China into nothing, if we just bombed the hell out of them without caring for innocent lives and such.

[dada]

well "take over" was a bad word.

but basically I am trying to convey that we could dismantle China into nothing, if we just bombed the hell out of them without caring for innocent lives and such.
Keyword "Without Caring for innocent lives"...you KNOW we are the only country playing by the rules of the Geneva Convention.......that would be TOO easy.

[HUM398]

I respect your opinion, but that's a little too imperialistic for my taste. I think the UN is about the most useless organization on the planet (Dept of Homeland Security not far behind), but also realize it takes some sort of international cooperation to quell threats like what we see in North Korea, Venezuela and Iran in addition to the more faceless threats of terrorism presented by Al Qaeda, the Baathists and Hezbollah among others. That is way too much for one country to handle.

Imperialism is a policy of extending control or authority over foreign entities as a means of acquisition and/or maintenance of empires. (wikipedia)... Now, i dont want to rule these countires or EXTEND control... I just wanna protect our people. You of course already know that they are a threat, so you can understand why i would (though you may not agree) want to go to such an extreme.... UN is useless... The idea doenst work (see League of nations). We can have the multilateralism by creating allies that share our views. Your right, all the stuff going on right now is to much for one country to handle and becareful with lives at the same time...... Im just tired of it all.

Thanks FDR! Thanks CARTER!

[LUFPAN]

haha really? I could bring up some figures that would astound you

China has a much greater army than we do, yes.

However our military budget, our weaponry, and our vehicle equipment far outnumber China's

A war with China is the absolute last thing we want. We are number 1 in the world but they are at number 2. Don't think for a moment that their is not strength in numbers. Simply waging an airwar with them would be ineffective. The only thing that we effectively outnumber them in is nuclear weapons. While our weapons are superior, they have us in the numbers department.

[LUFPAN]

well "take over" was a bad word.

but basically I am trying to convey that we could dismantle China into nothing, if we just bombed the hell out of them without caring for innocent lives and such.

No we couldn't. This air attack of yours is going to be much more difficult than you believe. We would not be able to simply fly over and control their skies. Winning the airwar would be diffult and time consuming all by itself.

[HUM398]

A war with China is the absolute last thing we want. We are number 1 in the world but they are at number 2. Don't think for a moment that their is not strength in numbers. Simply waging an airwar with them would be ineffective. The only thing that we effectively outnumber them in is nuclear weapons. While our weapons are superior, they have us in the numbers department.

i agree... a war with China would be costly, we would be the winner but not without a high price.... if we wanted to throw them into shambles we could in a matter of seconds, but americans values and morals are to spare as many innocent lives a possible and absoulte and total destruction of a country just aint our style.. Though i think we should take that approach to those that completely disregard our wishes and obviously have no since of life (terrorist)

But we wouldnt have to go to war with china...Simply arm the japs and they will gladly demolish china... Japs hate the chinese, always have always will.... If given the oppurtunity to wipe them out they would. Plus Japense techonlogy is second to only the U.S so they would have the upperhand...

Thats why China will force North Korea to forfeit thier Program and stop this non-sense... The last thing China wants is a Armed Japan, because unlike the USA, japan is more then happy to fight with China...

[ktCarl]

A war with China is the absolute last thing we want. We are number 1 in the world but they are at number 2. Don't think for a moment that their is not strength in numbers. Simply waging an airwar with them would be ineffective. The only thing that we effectively outnumber them in is nuclear weapons. While our weapons are superior, they have us in the numbers department.

The reason China doesn't scare me is because about 20 yrs ago they got PO'ed at Vietnam and invaded with droves of red Chinese soldiers. Vietnam kicked their a$$e$ back across the border.

[Reaganrattler07]

if were to go to war with China and North Korea.

We could take over China very fast, just by using bombs and air warfare.
We have much more supplies and vehicles than them.

with North Korea, we could disarm their nuclear warfare before it hits the United States, and if it :cool: does hit the United S:cool:tates it would hit around the western Washington area.

so no worries rlly lol

I hope to high Heaven that you will never be a military commander.

[mojotrain]

Yes, they sure do. A momement's reflection on this should make this clearer. Looking back, with the benefit of hindsight, it seems clear that the US was destined to prevail in the 2nd War. But that wasn't the case in 1941. There was still a real question of how everything would sort itself out. A few missteps by some of the US allies in the war, and all of Europe might very well have been singing "Deutschland Uber Alles" in 1945. There was very litte risk of either Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan indvading and conquering the US, but there was a very real chance that the American Forces might have had to return home and leave Western Europe and the Pacific in the hands of monstrous, evil regimes that were more powerful than us.

9/11 was a terrible, monstrous act. Every single life lost was precious. The people of the United States and its government had a duty to take all steps needed to prevent it from happening again, and to defeat the people who did this to us.

But in the end, it was fundamentally different from the Japanese attack. Our war against Islamic terrorists is not the same as the war against facism. Despite the support these guys have in some backwards corners of the world, their worldview and goals stand about a .001% chance of success. Mostt of it is because most people really DO want freedom, human rights, and the like--even Muslims. There is a good reason why they refer to us as the "Great Satan"-- Satan is a tempter, he seduces Muslims to abandon thier faith for the more worldly pleasures (such as rep. government, equal rights for women, religious freedom) of Western civilization. These guys are not so much fighting us as they are the 21st Century--- a century that we built. They are NOT going to win, they can't win. The question is, how much blood will they shed in pursuit of their quixotic goals.

We need not agree on Japans attack on Pearl or the terrorist attack on the US mainland being or having the same effect. That is, as long as you and I both know the possibility along with the probability of efforts of these terrorist or .001 percenters you estimate their numbers to get inside the United States with a dirty bomb and or chemicals to polute water or food, and having success. You called it yourself, explaining their motives and what they are willing to sacrifice. They could, while killing millions of Americans in our very own homes, could break the resolve of the doves which now number about 50 percent of our nation. I can't believe it either but I have no other source of figures except what I read and see on tv. One half of America is against protecting our way of life as it was and has been up until until the Viet Nam war.

Our elite Universitys are dumbing down new generations so they don't know the past or it's sacrifices. So no, the terrorist won't storm our beaches to acomplish their goal. Their intention is to nip a little here, a little there, weaken our will and like a noted communist once said. We will take over America without ever fireing a shot. Well shots will be fired but my fear is with the country split now as it is who will be fireing at who. Do you think America would come together in a common cause to save our rights to freedom an save our butts? I'm not confident at all. To be frank I don't see, in my life time the two sides ever mending the gap. I further think that for all the generations present at this time the hate will become greater. How do you feel on this?

As you said how much blood will be lost? In previous wars and conflicts there were always those who were againt military action. But it didn't make a damn. we went, we bombed, we won. Even put people in camps to keep an eye on them if they were from, or decendents of those, from the country we were fighting. Barbaric? maybe. Effective? Yes. Could we do it today? No! The resolve to win may be past.

To me your post was excellent. I enjoyed reading it and will look forward to others.

[Drake]

NKorea MIGHT have detonated a nuke weaker than the ones used at the end of WWII or it may have just been a bunker full of conventional explosives. They have already proven they can't fire a long-range missile past their own waters, and they don't have the resources to fight conventionally for long at all. (you have to feed soldiers)

The United States is the last country that should be worried about NKorea. They want our help they should BEG us for it, not try to blackmail us into it... They should be making the concessions, not us...

Bush is doing the EXACT right thing. Ignore the immature idiot (Kim Jong Il) that the Clinton Administration spoiled into thinking he could get anything he wanted just by throwing a fit or making threats.

Besides, even if they have nukes, with their missile capability they're more likely to nuke themselves than anyone else...

[HUM398]

NKorea MIGHT have detonated a nuke weaker than the ones used at the end of WWII or it may have just been a bunker full of conventional explosives. They have already proven they can't fire a long-range missile past their own waters, and they don't have the resources to fight conventionally for long at all. (you have to feed soldiers)

The United States is the last country that should be worried about NKorea. They want our help they should BEG us for it, not try to blackmail us into it... They should be making the concessions, not us...

Bush is doing the EXACT right thing. Ignore the immature idiot (Kim Jong Il) that the Clinton Administration spoiled into thinking he could get anything he wanted just by throwing a fit or making threats.

Besides, even if they have nukes, with their missile capability they're more likely to nuke themselves than anyone else...

Good post, and good points