The most outlandish thing I have heard in years...

[BeauxGeezy]

I had a conversation with Lonny this weekend and he said....

This guy

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/bogthekid/s_magic_i.jpg


was better than .....



this guy

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/bogthekid/airjordan.jpg



Sorry Lonny but you knew I wasn't going to let you get away with that one.

Discuss

[CoveMom]

you win. no discussion necessary.

[dada]

I'm just shocked that you and lonny and had a converstion...lol

[BeauxGeezy]

I'm not sure if a conversation that includes him saying the words "Magic Johnson was better than Jordan" should be called a conversation. I don't know what you call that.

He cracked up when I said my response though...
"Earvin Magic Johnson??"
I had to make sure there wasn't some other guy named Magic that he was referring to.

[dada]

I'm not sure if a conversation that includes him saying the words "Magic Johnson was better than Jordan" should be called a conversation. I don't know what you call that.

He cracked up when I said my response though...
"Earvin Magic Johnson??"
I had to make sure there wasn't some other guy named Magic that he was referring to.
LOL you had to use his government name to be sure.

I think Magic was a good player on a GREAT team...I mean he had Lew Alcindor, worthy....etc....Jordan WAS the bulls.

[Favpack]

Sam Bowie was better than both of them:eek: .

I'll listen to any sane conversation for second on the all time great list - behind MJ.

[BeauxGeezy]

Just one example of why Jordan was better.

Larry Bird shut Magic down several times....Jordan...ehhh not so much.

Magic was a helluva player and is among the top 10 in the history of the league. He is miles away from being better than Air Jordan. Jordan revolutionized the game...he was the NBA...and no matter who you were you tuned in to watch Jordan. Magic was a good player on a good team...he didn't turn non-fans into fans.

[KT2000]

His Airness.

I'm not sure I can add anything else constructive to the debate.

[SeguinMatadors]

Lonny, once again. You are dead wrong. Not even up for debate. Period.

[BeauxGeezy]

He (Lonny) actually has some good points and can almost...ALMOST make his claim seem logical. I can't wait until Lonny sees this thread. He had to know it was coming though.

[slorch]

Sam Bowie was better than both of them:eek: .

I'll listen to any sane conversation for second on the all time great list - behind MJ.
I was gong to vote for Mr Lubbock, himself, Craig Ehlo.

[BeauxGeezy]

I was gong to vote for Mr Lubbock, himself, Craig Ehlo.


I've always felt sorry for Ehlo. I mean damn...just turn around...don't guard the guy...run off the court...do anything...stop being that guy that's glued to the court in all the Jordan posters.

[slorch]

I've always felt sorry for Ehlo. I mean damn...just turn around...don't guard the guy...run off the court...do anything...stop being that guy that's glued to the court in all the Jordan posters.
yup. He was that close to stopping the play, but then that's the difference between an average pro and Jordan!

[dada]

I've always felt sorry for Ehlo. I mean damn...just turn around...don't guard the guy...run off the court...do anything...stop being that guy that's glued to the court in all the Jordan posters.
Ehlo should have went out like a man....FLAGRANT FOUL baby....you still loose the game, but you keep your Street Credibility...lol

[Miss Kitty]

I had a conversation with Lonny this weekend


satan must be wearing a ski suit. :eek:

[SeguinMatadors]

He (Lonny) actually has some good points and can almost...ALMOST make his claim seem logical. I can't wait until Lonny sees this thread. He had to know it was coming though.

Like the other guy said, Magic had Kareem and Worthy and a plethora of good players. Jordan made Pippen. He was Sean Elliot without Jordan.

Jordan=GOAT

[BeauxGeezy]

He could have tried the Jordan technique...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/bogthekid/ehlojordan_200_greatest.jpg

[dada]

satan must be wearing a ski suit. :eek:
same thought I had

[svhorns]

was Magic Johnson on space jam? no... Michael is better

[dada]

was Magic Johnson on space jam? no... Michael is better
I would agree with you there....but Shawn Bradley was on Space Jam....so bac example...lol

[dada]

No one ever got beat up for their "Converse Weapons" or "LA Gear"
"I want to be like Magic"...doesnt have the same ring
Michigan St jerseys STILL aren't popular
As Mike told worthy..."You BETTER eat your wheaties"

[BeauxGeezy]

And little kids everywhere weren't drinking Gatorade and shooting with their tongue wagging and singing "I wanna be...wanna be like Earvin"

[SeguinMatadors]

I used to shoot with my tounge out.. lmao. I wanted to be like Mike.

[svhorns]

Like Mike... I wanna be like Mike. I wanna be I wanna be Like Mike... Like Mike...I wanna be like Mike... if yall remember the little Jingle

[KT2000]

If Jordan's skills alone and all-around Legend status aren't convincing enough...these guys were Jordan's centers....the guys he had to depend on to war it up in the paint and take pressure off of the perimeter game....

Bill Cartwright
Bill Wennington
Jack Haley
Luc Longley

If that doesn't prove MJ's greatness, I don't know what does.

[BeauxGeezy]

Cartwright's free throw style was absolutely hilarious.

[slorch]

Cartwright's free throw style was absolutely hilarious.
like pulling back a catapult. as the shot often looked like a stone too

[BeauxGeezy]

The most outlandish thing I have SEEN in years...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHV1qfqdU2Q&mode=related&search=

but that's a different thread entirely.

[lonny23]

I had a conversation with Lonny this weekend and he said....

This guy

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/bogthekid/s_magic_i.jpg


was better than .....



this guy

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/bogthekid/airjordan.jpg



Sorry Lonny but you knew I wasn't going to let you get away with that one.

Discuss
I'm surprised you didn't put it up there yesterday!:D

Anyway, Jordan won 6 titles in a watered down NBA that had rules catered specifically for him to win. He didn't play Boston and L.A. caliber teams to get 6 titles. The guy is great, but it took him until YEAR 7 to win a title.

I said Magic and I stand by it. I saw the NBA from 1980 on. Remember, Magic won a title as a rookie and he had to play center in Game 6 of the 1980 Finals because Kareem was hurt. Magic scored liked 42 and grabbed 15 rebounds and had like 8 assists to beat Philly. He revolutionized the PG position because he was 6'9" and could pass over the top of people, plus he had an offensive game where he could post people up. He even developed a baby hook that came in handy in 1987!:p (If you're going to throw stuff out there, so will I!:D ) I saw magic effectively play all 5 positions on the floor at times. He came into the NBA as an awesome passer and he just made his teammates better. We're talking about a guy who did this in his career:

79-80 NBA champ
80-81 Upset in Round 1
81-82 NBA champ
82-83 NBA finalist
83-84 NBA finalist
84-85 NBA champ (Who did they beat?)
85-86 Upset in Conf. Finals
86-87 NBA champ (Kinda like 84-85)
87-88 NBA champ
88-89 NBA finalist
89-90 Upset in Round 2
90-91 NBA finalist
95-96 Beat in Round 1 after Magic made late-season comeback.

I'll post an article:

Full Name: Earvin Johnson Jr.
Born: 8/14/59 in Lansing, Mich.
Height: 6-9; Weight: 255 lbs.
High School: Everett (Lansing)
College: Michigan State
Drafted by: L.A. Lakers (1979)
Transactions: Retired, 11/7/91; Activated, 1/29/96; Retired, 5/14/96 Nickname: Magic
Honors: Elected to Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (2002); NBA champion (1980, '82, '85, '87, '88); NBA Finals MVP (1980, '82, '87); NBA MVP (1987, '89, '90); Nine-time All-NBA First Team (1983-91); All-NBA Second Team (1982); 12-time All-Star; All-Star MVP (1990, '92); Olympic gold medalist (1992); One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996).

Few athletes are truly unique, changing the way their sport is played with their singular skills. Earvin "Magic" Johnson was one of them.

Just how great a basketball player was Johnson? So great, perhaps, that future generations of hoop fans may wish they had entered the world years earlier -- just so they could have seen Magic play in person instead of watching him only on highlight reels.

He was what Bob Cousy was to the 1950s, what Oscar Robertson was to the 1960s, what Julius Erving was to the 1970s.

Still, Earvin Johnson was even more than a revolutionary player, who, at 6-9, was the tallest point guard in league history. His sublime talent elicited wonder and admiration from even the most casual basketball fan.

Whether it was a behind-the-back pass to a streaking James Worthy, a half-court swish at the buzzer or a smile that illuminated an arena, everyone who saw Johnson play took with them an indelible memory of what they had witnessed. From the moment he stepped onto the court, people pondered: How could a man so big do so many things with the ball and with his body? It was Magic.

Johnson accomplished virtually everything a player could dream of during his 13-year NBA career, all of which was spent with the Los Angeles Lakers. He was a member of five championship teams. He won the Most Valuable Player Award and the Finals MVP Award three times each. He was a 12-time All-Star and a nine-time member of the All-NBA First Team. He surpassed Robertson's career assists record, a mark he later relinquished to John Stockton. He won a gold medal with the original Dream Team at the 1992 Olympics in Barcelona.

His all-around play inspired the addition of the term "triple-double" to basketball's lexicon, although history demands that Robertson be recognized as the first man to regularly post double figures in three statistical categories in the same game. Unfortunately for the Big O, nobody had thought of the term triple-double back in the 1960s.

Johnson did all of this while maintaining a childlike enthusiasm born of a pure love of sport and competition. Beyond all the money, success and fame, Johnson was just happy to be playing basketball.

If there was one aspect of Johnson's game that awed people the most, it was his brilliant passing skills. He dazzled fans and dumbfounded opponents with no-look passes off the fastbreak, pinpoint alley-oops from halfcourt, spinning feeds and overhand bullets under the basket through triple teams. When defenders expected him to pass, he shot. When they expected him to shoot, he passed.

Said former Lakers swingman Michael Cooper: "There have been times when he has thrown passes and I wasn't sure where he was going. Then one of our guys catches the ball and scores, and I run back up the floor convinced that he must've thrown it through somebody."

Born on August 14, 1959, Earvin Johnson Jr. grew up in Lansing, Mich., with nine brothers and sisters. His father worked in a General Motors plant; his mother was a school custodian. Young Earvin passed the time by singing on street corners with his buddies and, of course, by playing basketball. "Junior," or "June Bug" as his neighbors called him, was on the court by 7:30 many mornings.

"I practiced all day," Johnson told USA Weekend. "I dribbled to the store with my right hand and back with my left. Then I slept with my basketball."

From the moment he stepped onto the court, people pondered: How could a man so big do so many things with the ball and with his body? It was Magic.

Johnson was first called "Magic" when he was a star at Everett High School. He was given the nickname by a sports writer who had just seen the 15-year-old prepster notch 36 points, 16 rebounds and 16 assists. (Johnson's mother, a devout Christian, thought the nickname was blasphemous.) As a senior, Johnson led Everett to a 27-1 record and the state title while averaging 28.8 points and 16.8 rebounds.

Johnson wanted to attend college close to home, so he enrolled at Michigan State in East Lansing. He put up impressive numbers as a freshman (17.0 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 7.4 apg), leading the Spartans to a 25-5 record and the Big Ten Conference title. As an All-America sophomore Johnson directed his team to the national title in 1979, beating Larry Bird's Indiana State squad in perhaps the most anticipated (and most watched) NCAA Championship Game ever played.

Having accomplished all he wanted to on the college level, Johnson passed up his final two seasons and entered the 1979 NBA Draft. The Utah Jazz were supposed to draft in the first position, but the Jazz had conveyed their 1979 first-round pick to the Los Angeles Lakers three years earlier as compensation for the free-agent signing of Gail Goodrich. Thus the Lakers took Johnson with the first overall pick.

The team had just undergone big changes: a new coach in Jack McKinney, a new owner in Dr. Jerry Buss, and seven new faces on the court. With the country's most exciting college player in a Lakers uniform, Buss hoped the normally reserved Forum crowds would get up off their hands and onto their feet. "Showtime" was born.

Fans attending Johnson's first game witnessed the sort of exuberance he would display throughout his entire career. After a buzzer-beating shot by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to defeat the San Diego Clippers on opening night, Johnson went berserk, distributing bone-jarring high-fives and bear hugs. At this rate, most observers thought, the kid would burn out in no time. Even Abdul-Jabbar had to tell the rookie to cool it, because there were 81 more games yet to play -- and that didn't count playoffs.

That season's NBA Rookie of the Year Award went to Bird of the Boston Celtics. But the NBA champion was Los Angeles. The Lakers rolled to the Western Division title with a 60-22 record, the league's second best. (Paul Westhead took over as coach after McKinney was seriously hurt in a bicycle crash 14 games into the season.) In 77 games Johnson's numbers mirrored those of his days at Michigan State (18.0 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 7.3 apg). He became the first rookie to start in an NBA All-Star Game since Elvin Hayes 11 years earlier.

In the 1980 NBA Finals against the Philadelphia 76ers, Johnson's performance in the series-clinching sixth game was the stuff of legend. Abdul-Jabbar was sidelined with a badly sprained ankle sustained during his 40-point effort in Game 5. Up 3-2, the Lakers could wrap things up on the 76ers' home court.

Enter Johnson, the 20-year-old rookie. Assuming Abdul-Jabbar's position at center, Johnson sky-hooked and rebounded the Lakers to victory with 42 points, 15 boards, seven assists and three steals. He even jumped for the opening tap. Johnson became the first rookie ever to win the Finals MVP Award. The stunning effort exemplified his uncanny ability to do whatever the Lakers needed in order to win.

In the Los Angeles Times, Westhead said of his amazing rookie: "We all thought he was a movie-star player, but we found out he wears a hard hat. It's like finding a great orthopedic surgeon who can also operate a bulldozer."

The next year was not nearly as kind to Johnson or to the Lakers. In the first month, 7-2 Tom Burleson of the Atlanta Hawks fell on Johnson's left knee, forcing him to miss 45 games with torn cartilage. He came back in time for the Lakers' best-of-3 playoff series against the Houston Rockets. Johnson had made only 2 of his 13 field-goal attempts when he tossed up an airball as time ran out in Game 3. The Lakers lost the game, 89-86, and the series.

Johnson and the Lakers rebounded in 1981-82, winning their division and defeating the 76ers in another six-game NBA Finals in which Johnson repeated as MVP. The season also had its share of ugliness. Early on, Westhead wanted to restructure the offense in a way that Johnson believed would have reduced his role. In a widely reported incident, Johnson exploded in the lockerroom after a game in Utah. "I can't play here anymore. I want to leave. I want to be traded," he was quoted as saying. Reporters waited for the signal that Johnson was joking. It didn't come.

Westhead was fired the next day and replaced with assistant coach Pat Riley. At Riley's first home game, fans at the Forum booed Johnson during introductions. In Seattle he was jeered whenever he touched the ball. He paid the price in the All-Star balloting and was not selected as a starter for the only time in his career other than his injury season. It took Johnson's stellar playoff performance to silence the hecklers.

On the court, Johnson's play was as splendid as it was consistent. He won his second consecutive steals title that season and for the remainder of his career would never dip below averages of 17.6 points, 5.9 rebounds and 10.5 assists.

The two years following the Westhead flap were great for Johnson individually but tough for Los Angeles. Johnson won the first two of his four league assists titles and continued to improve upon his already brilliant all-around play. In the 1982-83 NBA Finals against rival Philadelphia, however, Lakers Norm Nixon, Worthy and Bob McAdoo were all hampered by injury. The 76ers swept the series.

By the 1984 NBA Finals, Nixon was gone, Abdul-Jabbar was pushing 40 and Johnson had signed a then record 25-year, $25 million contract. The grueling seven-game series against Boston marked a low point in Johnson's career. His playmaking gaffes at the end of Games 2, 4 and 7 contributed to the Lakers' defeat.

With Johnson improving his outside shot and setting assists records, the Lakers won three NBA titles in the next four years. The first of this string came in the 1985 Finals win over their nemesis the Celtics. After being destoyed in Game 1 of the series ,148-114, dubbed the "Memorial Day Massacre" as the game was played on that holiday, the Lakers would rebound to take the series in six games. The decisive victory came on the Garden parquet floor 111-100 and marked the first time the Lakers defeated the Celtics in a Finals after eight previous failures strecthing back to when the Lakers played in Minneapolis.

During the 1986-87 season, with Abdul-Jabbar sidelined briefly with an eye infection, Johnson did something most pro scouts had said he couldn't do: score. He pumped in 38 points against Houston and then a career-high 46 points in the next game against the Sacramento Kings. His 23.9 season average was the highest of his career.

That season, Johnson was named NBA Most Valuable Player. It had taken him eight years, in which time Bird had landed three MVP Awards. Johnson had wanted it badly. Before the winner was announced, Johnson told the Los Angeles Times, "Right now, he's 3 and I'm 0. That bugs me a little." (He would eventually tie Bird in the MVP count, claiming the award again in 1989 and 1990.)

Johnson won his third Finals MVP Award in 1987, following a six-game victory over Boston. It was also the year that Johnson took Abdul-Jabbar's place as leader of the team. In games of H-O-R-S-E during practice, the 40-year-old center taught his protégé how to shoot a sky-hook. Johnson quickly mastered his own version of the shot, which he used to make the game-winning basket in the Game 4 victory at the Garden, 107-106. That win propelled the Lakers to a second Finals' win over the Celtics in three years.

In 1988, the Lakers edged the Detroit Pistons in a bitter seven-game series to become the first team since the 1968-69 Celtics to repeat as champs. The following two seasons Johnson averaged more than 20 points and led the Lakers to two more division titles. In 1988-89, Abdul-Jabbar's final season, Johnson suffered a hamstring injury in the NBA Finals and the Lakers were swept by a well-rounded Pistons team. The next year Los Angeles suffered its earliest departure from the playoffs in nine years, losing to the Phoenix Suns in the Conference Semifinals.

Johnson in the 1990-91 campaign helped the Lakers to a 58-24 record. After upsetting a Clyde Drexler-led Portland TrailBlazers team that won the Pacific Division in the Western Conference Finals, the Lakers made another trip to the NBA Finals. The Lakers lost to the Chicago Bulls and Michael Jordan in five games, but it was the ninth time Johnson had reached the Finals in his 12 seasons.

Before the 1991-92 campaign Johnson stunned the world with the announcement that he had tested positive for the HIV virus and was retiring from the NBA. He made a triumphant appearance at the All-Star Game that season, however, earning the game's MVP Award and leading the West to a 153-113 victory. He also began a campaign to promote AIDS awareness, an effort for which he received the league's J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award.

Johnson went on to play for the 1992 U.S. Olympic Dream Team, write a book about safe sex, run several businesses he had started as a player, work for NBC as a television commentator and explore the possibility of purchasing an NBA franchise. With 16 games left to play in the 1993-94 season, he replaced Randy Pfund as the head coach of the Lakers.

The team was fighting for a playoff berth when Johnson assumed the reins, and Los Angeles immediately won five straight. But after the club lost five of its next six outings, Johnson announced that he would not return as coach the following season.

"I want to go home," he told theAssociated Press. "It's never been my dream to coach. I want to own, to be a businessman. You've got to chase your dreams." Johnson got his wish in June 1994, when he purchased a share of the Lakers and became a part-owner.

In 1995 Johnson got involved in another business venture, opening a chain of movie theaters in minority neighborhoods in the Los Angeles area, an enterprise he later took to other cities.. He also continued to entertain fans around the world when he took his barnstorming basketball team (made up of former college and NBA players) to Asia and Australia.

But he wasn't through with the NBA. After sitting out 4 1/2 seasons he made a comeback late in the 1995-96 campaign, playing the final 32 games of the regular season for the Lakers. By then he had bulked up to 255 pounds and did as much of his playing at power forward as he did at guard. After the Lakers were ousted by Houston in the First Round of the 1996 playoffs, Johnson retired once again.

In his 13 NBA seasons Johnson compiled 17,707 points (19.5 ppg), 6,559 rebounds (7.2 rpg) and 10,141 assists (11.2 apg) in addition to 1,724 steals, good for ninth place on the all-time list. He also holds the top marks for most All-Star Game assists (127) and three-point baskets (10).

In 1996-97, Johnson was selected to the NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team. In 2002, he was inducted into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame.

Was he the best player of his day? Another all-time great thinks so.

"Magic is head-and-shoulders above everybody else," Larry Bird once observed in the Chicago Sun-Times. "I've never seen [anybody] as good as him."

Career Statistics

G FG% 3PFG% FT% Rebs RPG Asts APG Stls Blks Pts PPG
906 .520 .303 .848 6,559 7.2 10,141 11.2 1,724 374 17,707 19.5

When Magic joined the Lakers, Kareem was the best player on the team. The other scorers were Norm Nixon and Jamaal Wilkes. The Lakers went from 47 to 60 wins in Magic's rookie season. They went from 58 to 43 when Magic retired the first time. Byron Scott and James Worthy came to the Lakers in 1982 and 1984, but Magic had 2 titles before they ever arrived. Kareem won 1 title before Magic joined him way back in the day with Milwaukee. Magic came into college at Michigan State winning and won a national title as a sophomore before joining the NBA. That guy never knew anything but to win because he was the consummate guy to make his teammates better. When Kareem was declining, Magic took on more of the scoring load. Oscar Robertson used to get triple doubles before they tracked the stat, but Magic was a walking triple double when he was in the NBA. Magic made Worthy, Scott, Cooper, and the rest of those guys better everytime he took the court and he did it from Day 1 in the NBA. Jordan had to learn how to win. Magic knew how to win. Jordan never would've beaten the Celtics or Lakers of the 80's. While I'm at it, I'll say Bird was better than Jordan, too. The truth is Kareem was in decline when Magic joined the Lakers. He was still good, but not what he once was. He won his last MVP when Magic was a rookie. Scott was a good player, just as Worthy was, but Magic made them a lot better with his passing. Just remember how much Worthy scored filling the lane on a break. He was a great finisher, but he had one of the best distributors ever. The Celtics made a great turn-around in Bird's rookie year. He was the difference that made them great again. Wide, put down your hate for all that is Lakers and agree with me that Michael Jordan benefitted from a game that no longer had great teams like the 80's did. Jordan was not Bird or Magic. He had great athleticism and skills, but he didn't do as much to make his teammates better like Bird and Magic. Jordan won in a halfcourt, slow ti down game that had rules catered to his skills. Bird and Magic won because they ran the 2 best franchises in the 80's.

[twcpfan1]

Jordan was a great one on one player. Better than Magic and Bird in that respect. He was also a better defender. One of the best who ever played.

However, Magic made his team better. So did Bird. Kevin Mchale, Robert Parish and James Worthy were elevated to Hall of Fame category because of Magic and Bird.

Also keep in mind who they played against during the height of their careers. Jordan could not beat the Lakers,Celtics or Pistons in his 1st 6 years. I mean the Piston bad boys just totally hammered Jordan and Pippen. It's towards the end of Magic's and Bird's career when Jordan finally won. Of course it was about the time the NBA became a joke and the rules were pretty much re-written by David Stern to fuel Jordan's marketing dynasty. Now everybody wants to play like Mike. The result - the USA is now a second rate basketball nation. But you gotta admit. They can jump and look good doing it.

[BeauxGeezy]

He even developed a baby hook that came in handy in 1987!


communist.

[Favpack]

Who Magic played with:
Kareem - enough said
James Worthy
Michael Cooper
Byron Scott
A bunch of good guys I can't remember

Who MJ played with:
BJ Armstrong
Will Perdue
Jim ( or was it John) Paxson
A bunch of stiffs
Tony Kukoc
Scotty (don't give me the ball in crunch time) Pippen
Dennis "bride to be" Rodman

Questions?

[BeauxGeezy]

You forgot Rambis.:eek:

[Favpack]

You forgot Rambis.:eek:

Yes! Kurt "goggles" Rambis.

You can't stop Kurt, you can only hope to contain him.

He was league MVP if I recall...

or he was at least slow, white guy scoring less than 3 points a game MVP.

[BeauxGeezy]

Rambis' jumpshot looked like a kid from the chess club being forced to dress out for P.E.

[slorch]

Who Magic played with:
Kareem - enough said
James Worthy
Michael Cooper
Byron Scott
A bunch of good guys I can't remember

Who MJ played with:
BJ Armstrong
Will Perdue
Jim ( or was it John) Paxson
A bunch of stiffs
Tony Kukoc
Scotty (don't give me the ball in crunch time) Pippen
Dennis "bride to be" Rodman

Questions?
I think Steve Kerr and Horace Grant may swing it in MJ's favor:)

[Favpack]

I think Steve Kerr and Horace Grant may swing it in MJ's favor:)
Horace gets on the goggles team - that could be quite a team. Steve Kerr - Mr. damage - made some big shots for the Spurs too.

[lonny23]

communist.
That's what you get for starting this thread!:p

Nice choice of one of my favorite words!:D

In case you didn't see, I propped up your boy Larry Legend. Most of these cats responding to the thread are too young to actually see these guys play. They don't know 80's basketball.

[lonny23]

Who Magic played with:
Kareem - enough said
James Worthy
Michael Cooper
Byron Scott
A bunch of good guys I can't remember

Who MJ played with:
BJ Armstrong
Will Perdue
Jim ( or was it John) Paxson
A bunch of stiffs
Tony Kukoc
Scotty (don't give me the ball in crunch time) Pippen
Dennis "bride to be" Rodman

Questions?
Rodman was a defensive role player and better than Rambis, Green, McAdoo, and the other guys. I'll even say he's a little better than the overall production of Cooper. Pippen didn't want to be the top dog, but he's a better 2nd banana than Worthy. Kareem wasn't the same Kareem from the time Magic joined the team. He had good years, but not like early Kareem. Scott and Worthy got their's because Magic was getting them the ball. They were good players, but Magic just elevated them.

[BeauxGeezy]

You made some good points. I told them you would. But your still smoking crack if you think Earvin is better than Michael Jordan. He was good....just not that good. And if you ever mention that baby hook again I will hunt you down beat you relentlessly with a pair of Air Jordans.

[lonny23]

Magic never won less than 53 games in a season. I'm telling you guys that he did wonders for his teammates. He was a born leader. He lead his team as a rookie to a title. Don't forget he went INTO PHILLY as a rookie and won Game 6 of the NBA Finals. Airhead couldn't beat Boston when they were in decline even when he threw down 63. He couldn't beat Detroit either. Yeah, Jordan had the ball, shot a lot, made some moves, and he lost a lot. Magic and Bird just made the game easy for their teammates from their rookie year on. Jordan was helped greatly by the NBA changing the rules for him to win. The NBA did that because they knew they didn't have more Boston and LA's coming up. It became all about the individual. Give me Magic as a teammate. Don't get me wrong because I'd take Jordan, but I'd take Magic first. Jordan ruined basketball. Magic and Bird brought it back.

[BeauxGeezy]

Dude...did you just call Michael Jordan "airhead"?
Oh the humanity.

[Humblefied]

You made some good points. I told them you would. But your still smoking crack if you think Earvin is better than Michael Jordan. He was good....just not that good. And if you ever mention that baby hook again I will hunt you down beat you relentlessly with a pair of Air Jordans.

Let's just have a one-on-one game between Mike and Magic. Whose better? Winner takes all.

[lonny23]

You made some good points. I told them you would. But your still smoking crack if you think Earvin is better than Michael Jordan. He was good....just not that good. And if you ever mention that baby hook again I will hunt you down beat you relentlessly with a pair of Air Jordans.
Bird was better than Jordan. Will you agree with that as a Celtics fan? We sat there and talked about who Bird played with. They had plenty of role players, but only a few top guys and Bird made their job easier and he made them better.

I'm sorry, but the guy who basically had titles handed to him because of how the games were reffed is not going to get a lot of credibility with me. D Wade is no Jordan, but the same rules that make Wade and LebRon look good are what made Jordan look good. Crap, Shaq and Duncan have made a fortune out of how the games are reffed.

[dragons08]

i cant belive lonny is trying to defend himself here...the jury ruled, and wide won

[lonny23]

Dude...did you just call Michael Jordan "airhead"?
Oh the humanity.
Yep. I call him that every once in a while.

[lonny23]

Let's just have a one-on-one game between Mike and Magic. Whose better? Winner takes all.
Basketball used to be a team game where you needed all 5 players. It's not one on one and isolations like you see now. Sure MJ would win one-on-one, but you need 5 players and Magic was better at getting the other guys into the game.

[lonny23]

i cant belive lonny is trying to defend himself here...the jury ruled, and wide won
You can't stock the jury with young guys. Anybody under the age of 25 doesn't get a vote here.

[BeauxGeezy]

but you need 5 players and Magic was better at getting the other guys into the game.

I will agree with that...and only that.

[Humblefied]

You can't stock the jury with young guys. Anybody under the age of 25 doesn't get a vote here.

Whoa Whoa, I'm under 25 and would much rather watch Bird over any other player in there is. That guy can pass like none other. You gotta root for the hick from french lick too.

[dragons08]

You can't stock the jury with young guys. Anybody under the age of 25 doesn't get a vote here.
ah yes, i forgot your way older than i, thus your opioion will always be more valued then somebody younger than yourself...

so whatever question i ask, somebody older than i, their opioion = invaluable

[dragons08]

Whoa Whoa, I'm under 25 and would much rather watch Bird over any other player in there is. That guy can pass like none other. You gotta root for the hick from french lick too.
it dont matter what you think, your under 25! DUH!!!!

[BeauxGeezy]

ah yes, i forgot your way older than i, thus your opioion will always be more valued then somebody younger than yourself...

so whatever question i ask, somebody older than i, their opioion = invaluable


Basically...yeah
One day you'll reach this level and be old and omnipotent too. You'll freakin' love it bro.

[lonny23]

I will agree with that...and only that.
OK, tell me this.

Who wins a series?

Jordan's Bulls in the 90's
or
Magic or Bird in the 80's.

I'm taking the Lakers or Celtics everytime. You saw the 80's. The Bulls don't have anything on the Lakers or Celtics. Those 2 teams actually won games legitimately and they dominated. It wasn't anything like the tiddlywinks we've seen for 15 years where they prop teams up and make individual players look good. Bird and Magic were stars on their own merit, but they LED those teams for their entire careers. You know the C's and Lakers went to pot when Magic and Bird retired and it wasn't like Jordan when the whole team left with him (Jackson, Pippen, and Rodman). The C's and Lakers got better with them on the team and worse without them.

[Humblefied]

it dont matter what you think, your under 25! DUH!!!!

Well then I need to grow 7 years to have an opinion on this board. Im going into retirement for 7 years until I am considered equal as everyone else.

[SeguinMatadors]

Yep. I call him that every once in a while.

Well it is quite simple then.... you don't deserve to breath another breath. Fact.

[lonny23]

ah yes, i forgot your way older than i, thus your opioion will always be more valued then somebody younger than yourself...

so whatever question i ask, somebody older than i, their opioion = invaluable
All I'm saying is you have to be older to have seen the game in the 80's to know what those teams were like and how those players were. I didn't say your opinion is worthless in general. I'm just saying you need a little experience when discussing this issue.

[SeguinMatadors]

OK, tell me this.

Who wins a series?

Jordan's Bulls in the 90's
or
Magic or Bird in the 80's.

I'm taking the Lakers or Celtics everytime. You saw the 80's. The Bulls don't have anything on the Lakers or Celtics. Those 2 teams actually won games legitimately and they dominated. It wasn't anything like the tiddlywinks we've seen for 15 years where they prop teams up and make individual players look good. Bird and Magic were stars on their own merit, but they LED those teams for their entire careers. You know the C's and Lakers went to pot when Magic and Bird retired and it wasn't like Jordan when the whole team left with him (Jackson, Pippen, and Rodman). The C's and Lakers got better with them on the team and worse without them.

Bulls... I take Jordan and the Bulls over any team in NBA history. Jordan will keep any team in contention and is always the X factor at the end.

[SeguinMatadors]

All I'm saying is you have to be older to have seen the game in the 80's to know what those teams were like and how those players were. I didn't say your opinion is worthless in general. I'm just saying you need a little experience when discussing this issue.

ESPN classic doesn't show entire playoff series of those teams all of the time:confused:

[Humblefied]

OK, tell me this.

Who wins a series?

Jordan's Bulls in the 90's
or
Magic or Bird in the 80's.

I'm taking the Lakers or Celtics everytime. You saw the 80's. The Bulls don't have anything on the Lakers or Celtics. Those 2 teams actually won games legitimately and they dominated. It wasn't anything like the tiddlywinks we've seen for 15 years where they prop teams up and make individual players look good. Bird and Magic were stars on their own merit, but they LED those teams for their entire careers. You know the C's and Lakers went to pot when Magic and Bird retired and it wasn't like Jordan when the whole team left with him (Jackson, Pippen, and Rodman). The C's and Lakers got better with them on the team and worse without them.


You have to go for the number of 50+ games Mike has thrown up in the playoffs and those clutch shots (of course they all have had their share) and that one time he played with a fever.

[BeauxGeezy]

OK, tell me this.

Who wins a series?

Jordan's Bulls in the 90's
or
Magic or Bird in the 80's.

I'm taking the Lakers or Celtics everytime. You saw the 80's. The Bulls don't have anything on the Lakers or Celtics. Those 2 teams actually won games legitimately and they dominated. It wasn't anything like the tiddlywinks we've seen for 15 years where they prop teams up and make individual players look good. Bird and Magic were stars on their own merit, but they LED those teams for their entire careers. You know the C's and Lakers went to pot when Magic and Bird retired and it wasn't like Jordan when the whole team left with him (Jackson, Pippen, and Rodman). The C's and Lakers got better with them on the team and worse without them.


That's not a fair question to ask me. I'll take the Celtics of the 80's against any team in the history of the league. I freakin' love those teams. In reality....you have to add in the X factor. And that is Michael Jordan refuses to lose. The Bulls teams that one the second set of 3 titles....unstoppable. I don't think any team could have beat them.

[GoOwls]

If Jordan's skills alone and all-around Legend status aren't convincing enough...these guys were Jordan's centers....the guys he had to depend on to war it up in the paint and take pressure off of the perimeter game....

Bill Cartwright
Bill Wennington
Jack Haley
Luc Longley

If that doesn't prove MJ's greatness, I don't know what does.

OK guys, I'm not going to dispute that Michael was better, but I would like to throw in an argument for Magic, mostly because this thread is so biased towards Michael, and Magic is almost getting trivialized.

Michael did control games, but Magic was a more complete player in his total versatility. He was the king of triple doubles. Which, by definition shows versatility. Only Oscar Robertson was more likely to get a triple double, but most of you guys are too young to get into the "Who's better, The Big O or MJ", argument.

Also, Michael was a guard, period.

Magic was a point guard, who could score, shoot, shoot threes, drive the rim, double digit assists, double digit rebounds, set the pace of the game, play either forward position, and score over 40 in a playoff game as the starting CENTER.

I believe that while Michael was the most individually gifted player, that Magic was more complete due to his versatility and his ability to bring that "game control" to the game no matter what position he was pressed into playing.

And he could guard everybody on the court.

The Big O and Magic are a lot closer in overall skill and value to Michael than most of you guys would give them credit for.

[lonny23]

Well then I need to grow 7 years to have an opinion on this board. Im going into retirement for 7 years until I am considered equal as everyone else.
You actually learn along the way. To be honest with you guys, I won't even say it has to be a definite 25 because some people are a student of the game in sports at an early age and they know about the past. Since I don't see many young guys around here throwing out old names, I'm only left to believe you only know about guys who have played primarily from age 12 on in your lifetime. Wide told me he watched The Catch game in 1982. I was 10 and he was 7. I was watching this stuff when I was 7, too. I was talking about the 1979 Cotton Bowl on Saturday. Even though I never saw them play, I knew all about Johnny Unitas, Gale Sayers, Dick Butkus, and the stars for the different sports. I listened to what the old sportswriters said about guys long ago. You need those old guys to bridge the gap between players of old and the current players. Jordan became who he became because of guys like Julius Erving, Elgin Baylor, David Thompson, and Connie Hawkins.

[twcpfan1]

I would always start a team with a dominant big guy and if I had my choice from any era, it would be a toss up between Wilt and Shaq. But the second guy I would take would be Larry Bird. Michael would disrupt the chemistry of any team that had other superstars in it. He was a perfect fit for Chicago. Magic and Bird would fit in any team under any concept.

[lonny23]

That's not a fair question to ask me. I'll take the Celtics of the 80's against any team in the history of the league. I freakin' love those teams. In reality....you have to add in the X factor. And that is Michael Jordan refuses to lose. The Bulls teams that one the second set of 3 titles....unstoppable. I don't think any team could have beat them.
Dude, you know Magic and Bird would've ran through their mother to win, too. Yeah, Jordan refused to lose, but so did the other guys. Besides, he benefitted from ref help to have a chance to make those late shots. He didn't get shady refs in the 80's, but he had major ref help from 1991 on after NBC got the TV contract. Those Bulls couldn't hold the Lakers or Celtics jocks. Chicago was the best team in a weaker NBA.

[dragons08]

Well then I need to grow 7 years to have an opinion on this board. Im going into retirement for 7 years until I am considered equal as everyone else.
i guess were not as up to "par" in knowledge as some of the older folk, but based on classes of adults i know what they took in hs, and what they know now, as far as knowledge in just stragiht up smarts, not sports or anything, id put my brain up against many adults

[SeguinMatadors]

Dude, you know Magic and Bird would've ran through their mother to win, too. Yeah, Jordan refused to lose, but so did the other guys. Besides, he benefitted from ref help to have a chance to make those late shots. He didn't get shady refs in the 80's, but he had major ref help from 1991 on after NBC got the TV contract. Those Bulls couldn't hold the Lakers or Celtics jocks. Chicago was the best team in a weaker NBA.

They may have ran through their mothers to win... but Jordan had that and another gear that no other NBA player has ever had... he could not be guarded when he didn't want to be. Regardless of the 5 players on the court. I was amazed everytime I watched him when I was little and even more in awe when I watch classic and have a better understanding for what he did.

[BeauxGeezy]

Jordan got a lot of calls. I'll give you that. But he was a one man show for much of the 80's and still dominated. With NO calls...
I agree the media had him as their darling and the NBC contract only perpetuated that...but I don't think it mattered. Like you said the league was weaker at that time.
I'm only talking about talent here. You said Earvin Magic Johnson was a better player than MJ. Right?
On that point and that point alone you are dead wrong. Speaking of holding jocks...Magic couldn't hold Jordan's jock with both hands and a forklift.

[lonny23]

OK guys, I'm not going to dispute that Michael was better, but I would like to throw in an argument for Magic, mostly because this thread is so biased towards Michael, and Magic is almost getting trivialized.

Michael did control games, but Magic was a more complete player in his total versatility. He was the king of triple doubles. Which, by definition shows versatility. Only Oscar Robertson was more likely to get a triple double, but most of you guys are too young to get into the "Who's better, The Big O or MJ", argument.

Also, Michael was a guard, period.

Magic was a point guard, who could score, shoot, shoot threes, drive the rim, double digit assists, double digit rebounds, set the pace of the game, play either forward position, and score over 40 in a playoff game as the starting CENTER.

I believe that while Michael was the most individually gifted player, that Magic was more complete due to his versatility and his ability to bring that "game control" to the game no matter what position he was pressed into playing.

And he could guard everybody on the court.

The Big O and Magic are a lot closer in overall skill and value to Michael than most of you guys would give them credit for.
Those are good points. I want the guy who can do it all and make everybody better, not the guy who looks good, but needs help to ever get over the top. Magic and Bird came into the NBA winning titles. Bird took a no-name Indiana State team to the title game. Until Tom Izzo took over, Michigan State was pretty much a nonfactor after Magic left. Magic played in 9 NBA Finals in his 12 full years in the NBA. He would've played in more if he didn't have HIV. He came back to be All-Star Game MVP after he retired. Without Bird injuring his back, the Celtics would've been relevant for longer.

[lonny23]

I would always start a team with a dominant big guy and if I had my choice from any era, it would be a toss up between Wilt and Shaq. But the second guy I would take would be Larry Bird. Michael would disrupt the chemistry of any team that had other superstars in it. He was a perfect fit for Chicago. Magic and Bird would fit in any team under any concept.
I would take Wilt over Shaq, but I might have to take Russell depending on who else I could get on the team.

[lonny23]

i guess were not as up to "par" in knowledge as some of the older folk, but based on classes of adults i know what they took in hs, and what they know now, as far as knowledge in just stragiht up smarts, not sports or anything, id put my brain up against many adults
I don't doubt that.

[KT2000]

Everyone likes to say Magic was better at getting people involved, and that's true to a certain extent. However, Magic actually had other quality players around him to distribute to on a consistent basis. He didn't play under nearly the same pressure that MJ did, and that's mostly what makes MJ a better player in my opinion.

I've never seen an athlete in any sport in my time shoulder as much of the burden as MJ, and be consisitently dominant. Jordan did what he wanted, when he wanted, how he wanted even though everyone knew what was coming.

Jordan was pretty versatile himself. When he first came out of UNC, they said he couldn't shoot and was just a highlight dunker. He becomes one of the best pure scorers in league history with the best turnaround jumper any of us will ever see. They said he couldn't defend. He wins the league defender of the year honors three times (never gets enough credit for that). They said he couldn't be a team player or win a title. He does, and he leads the Bulls 6 NBA championships. He was the undisputed man in all six.

Magic was a great player, but the first paragraph is the true reason I put Jordan on a higher pedestal (in addition to the fact Jordan is a UNC guy).

[lonny23]

Jordan got a lot of calls. I'll give you that. But he was a one man show for much of the 80's and still dominated. With NO calls...
I agree the media had him as their darling and the NBC contract only perpetuated that...but I don't think it mattered. Like you said the league was weaker at that time.
I'm only talking about talent here. You said Earvin Magic Johnson was a better player than MJ. Right?
On that point and that point alone you are dead wrong. Speaking of holding jocks...Magic couldn't hold Jordan's jock with both hands and a forklift.
OK, how about Bird vs. Jordan? To be clear, I said Magic was a better player. I never discussed talent. I was only talking about which guy I'd take first for a 5 on 5 basketball game. Magic had the shots and versatility to take over games. He wasn't going to consistently match MJ's point total, but he did consistently get more rebounds and assists. Magic was a great steals guy over the course of his career.

I'm going to give you 2 stats and this isn't staged. I don't know what the final results will be, but I do know they'll help make my point.

Jordan Career

.497 shooting
.327 3-pointers
.835 free throws
6.20 rebounds
5.3 assists
2.35 steals
.83 blocks
30.1 points

44.78 quality points (Points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks)
41.76 points scored (His points plus assists X 2.2)

Jordan Playoffs

.487 shooting
.332 3-pointers
.828 free throws
6.40 rebounds
5.7 assists
2.10 steals
.88 blocks
33.4 points

48.48 quality points
45.94 points scored

Magic Career

Honors: Elected to Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (2002); NBA champion (1980, '82, '85, '87, '88); NBA Finals MVP (1980, '82, '87); NBA MVP (1987, '89, '90); Nine-time All-NBA First Team (1983-91); All-NBA Second Team (1982); 12-time All-Star; All-Star MVP (1990, '92); Olympic gold medalist (1992); One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996).

RECORDS: Holds career record for highest assists-per-game average—11.2. ... Shares career record for most consecutive seasons leading league in steals—2.
HONORS: NBA Most Valuable Player (1986-87, 1988-89, 1989-90). ... IBM Award, for all-around contributions to team’s success (1983-84). ... All-NBA First Team (1982-83, 1983-84, 1984-85, 1985-86, 1986-87, 1987-88, 1988-89, 1989-90, 1990-91). ... All-NBA Second Team (1981-82). ... NBA All-Rookie Team (1979-80). ... J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award (1991-92).
NOTES: Led NBA with 3.43 steals per game (1980-81) and 2.67 steals per game (1981-82).

.520 shooting
.848 free throws
.303 3-pointers
1.90 steals
.41 steals
7.2 rebounds
11.2 assists
19.5 points

40.21 quality points
44.14 points scored

Magic Playoffs

NBA Finals Most Valuable Player (1980, 1982, 1987). ... Holds career playoff record for most assists—2,346. ... Holds NBA Finals single-series records for highest assists-per-game average—14.0 (1985); and highest assists-per-game average by a rookie—8.7 (1980). ... Holds NBA Finals single-game records for most points by a rookie—42 (May 16, 1980, vs. Philadelphia); most assists—21 (June 3, 1984, vs. Boston); most assists by a rookie—11 (May 7, 1980, vs. Philadelphia); and most assists in one half—14 (June 19, 1988, vs. Detroit). ... Shares NBA Finals single-game record for most assists in one quarter—8 (four times). ... Holds single-series playoff record for highest assists-per-game average—17.0 (1985). ... Shares single-game playoff records for most free throws made in one half—19 (May 8, 1991, vs. Golden State); most assists—24 (May 15, 1984, vs. Phoenix); and most assists in one half—15 (May 3, 1985, vs. Portland).

.506 shooting
.241 3-pointers
.838 free throws
.34 blocks
1.88 steals
7.7 rebounds
12.3 assists
19.5 points

41.72 quality points
46.56 points scored

Bird Career

Honors: Elected to Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (1998); NBA champion (1981, '84, '86); NBA Finals MVP (1984, '86); NBA MVP (1984, '85, '86); Nine-time All-NBA First Team (1980-88); All-NBA Second Team (1990); All-Defensive Second Team (1982, '83, '84); NBA Rookie of the Year (1980); One of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996); Olympic gold medalist (1992).

.496 shooting
.376 3-pointers
.886 free throws
10.00 rebounds
6.3 assists
1.73 steals
.84 blocks
24.3 points

43.17 quality points
38.16 points scored

Bird Playoffs

.472 shooting
.321 3-pointers
.890 free throws
10.30 rebounds
6.5 assists
1.80 steals
.88 blocks
23.8 points

43.28 quality points
38.1 points scored

Jordan scored more than Bird and Magic, but he didn't shoot better than Magic. When you add in assists, Magic was responsible for more points than MJ.

[lonny23]

Everyone likes to say Magic was better at getting people involved, and that's true to a certain extent. However, Magic actually had other quality players around him to distribute to on a consistent basis. He didn't play under nearly the same pressure that MJ did, and that's mostly what makes MJ a better player in my opinion.

I've never seen an athlete in any sport in my time shoulder as much of the burden as MJ, and be consisitently dominant. Jordan did what he wanted, when he wanted, how he wanted even though everyone knew what was coming.

Jordan was pretty versatile himself. When he first came out of UNC, they said he couldn't shoot and was just a highlight dunker. He becomes one of the best pure scorers in league history with the best turnaround jumper any of us will ever see. They said he couldn't defend. He wins the league defender of the year honors three times (never gets enough credit for that). They said he couldn't be a team player or win a title. He does, and he leads the Bulls 6 NBA championships. He was the undisputed man in all six.

Magic was a great player, but the first paragraph is the true reason I put Jordan on a higher pedestal (in addition to the fact Jordan is a UNC guy).I kinda figured the last part played in the discussion!:p

[yankee]

i guess were not as up to "par" in knowledge as some of the older folk, but based on classes of adults i know what they took in hs, and what they know now, as far as knowledge in just stragiht up smarts, not sports or anything, id put my brain up against many adults
that has absolutely nothing to do with knowing basketball from the 80's...i'm not going to argue on who was better because i never saw magic play...i'm a utah jazz fan and saw some amazing feats jordan pulled off in the finals against the jazz...flat out amazing.

[Twin Threat]

Jordan was the Greatest Bball player not just in stats or championships but he took his teammates to a higher game, thats what leaders do. without him Pippen, Grant, Armstrong, Kerr, Cartwright and gang wouldn't have won anything!!!!:D

[pack0808]

I absolotely loved watching the NBA as a kid in the 80's. I can hardly stomach a NBA game these days. I enjoyed the early and mid 90's also but the 80's were the best. I am still a Celtics and Rockets fan but the NBA is just not what it was.

[lonny23]

I absolotely loved watching the NBA as a kid in the 80's. I can hardly stomach a NBA game these days. I enjoyed the early and mid 90's also but the 80's were the best. I am still a Celtics and Rockets fan but the NBA is just not what it was.
The NBA died when Magic and Bird along with their teams fell off. The NBA has not been great since Detroit, Lakers, New York, Indiana, Chicago, and San Antonio have done their thing.

[Twin Threat]

I absolotely loved watching the NBA as a kid in the 80's. I can hardly stomach a NBA game these days. I enjoyed the early and mid 90's also but the 80's were the best. I am still a Celtics and Rockets fan but the NBA is just not what it was.

I agree, NBA is now and individual sport the only two Teams Left are the pistons and spurs

[lonny23]

I agree, NBA is now and individual sport the only two Teams Left are the pistons and spurs
You might want to add to that list!:D Logic says you don't make the NBA Finals with 1 All-Star. That means you have a team to overcome the normal individual brilliance.

[Twin Threat]

You might want to add to that list!:D Logic says you don't make the NBA Finals with 1 All-Star. That means you have a team to overcome the normal individual brilliance.

Probably do need to add one or two more, but don't follow the NBA that much, college Bball is better, But I'll watch hockey before that. They got hitting with sticks:D

[dragons08]

that has absolutely nothing to do with knowing basketball from the 80's...i'm not going to argue on who was better because i never saw magic play...i'm a utah jazz fan and saw some amazing feats jordan pulled off in the finals against the jazz...flat out amazing.
i know, but i was making a point to lonny, how just cause were younger doesnt mean we dont know stuff, like some people may be experts on 80's basketball and be 15

[Sacred Ground]

Michael Jordan defied gravity!

[lonny23]

i know, but i was making a point to lonny, how just cause were younger doesnt mean we dont know stuff, like some people may be experts on 80's basketball and be 15
I agree you guys could be experts at an early age, but the fact remains that Calallen is probably the only person under 20 who might have a good grasp on the past and say it here. One of you young guys out there might know past sports history, but you don't translate it onto here.

I'll give you 2 examples of what I'm talking about.

Last night I said Michael Jordan became who he was because of people like Julius Erving, David Thompson, Connie Hawkins, and Elgin Baylor. I saw Dr. J. play late in his career, but not the ABA days coming out of UMASS. I didn't see the other guys play, but I heard of them and what they did and with NBATV, I've seen old footage of them.

Wide was talking about Albert Haynesworth earlier and comparing how PC we are nowadays compared to the old days. He talked about Butkus (Who played with my uncle) and the mean guys like Diron Talbert and more. We didn't get to see the hard-nosed dirty players of the 50's, 60's, and early 70's play, but we studied them as kids. We are aware of the past. That's all I'm talking about. I was born in 1971, but I felt it important as a kid to know about the Ice Bowl in 1967 and the NFL Championship game in 1958.

[GoOwls]

I agree you guys could be experts at an early age, but the fact remains that Calallen is probably the only person under 20 who might have a good grasp on the past and say it here. One of you young guys out there might know past sports history, but you don't translate it onto here.

I'll give you 2 examples of what I'm talking about.

Last night I said Michael Jordan became who he was because of people like Julius Erving, David Thompson, Connie Hawkins, and Elgin Baylor. I saw Dr. J. play late in his career, but not the ABA days coming out of UMASS. I didn't see the other guys play, but I heard of them and what they did and with NBATV, I've seen old footage of them.

Wide was talking about Albert Haynesworth earlier and comparing how PC we are nowadays compared to the old days. He talked about Butkus (Who played with my uncle) and the mean guys like Diron Talbert and more. We didn't get to see the hard-nosed dirty players of the 50's, 60's, and early 70's play, but we studied them as kids. We are aware of the past. That's all I'm talking about. I was born in 1971, but I felt it important as a kid to know about the Ice Bowl in 1967 and the NFL Championship game in 1958.

Most of those guys played for chump change, compared to todays millionaire athletes. It was all about pride and being the best. They could find jobs that paid more than professional sports. It was all about the game. Heck, I remember in the 60's most Cowboys players made about 1 1/2 to 2 times what my dad made on the production line at the Kraft Foods plant. They all got off-season jobs selling cars or insurance to make ends meet.

It was certainly all about the game.