Charlie Weis = John Mackovic

[jtk1519]

Discuss

[BeauxGeezy]

Correction


Charlie Weis may have eaten John Mackovic

[Favpack]

Is that the bad coach, or the bald, obscure actor - John Malkovich (sp)?

Charlie will turn ND around - I think - but he should have stayed at NE. Maybe if he wore a sweater vest.

[Texasfrog]

Discuss

He is going to have to get a few more top-notch recruiting classes (I think). Notre Dame doesnt play "defense" to save their arrasss.

No way on God's Green earth their a top #15 team and probably not a top #20 with that defense.

Also.. Brady Quinn is "over-rated !!" He is the Golden boy playing at Notre Dame QB position but he is over-rated .. He is good, just not "really really good."

[BeauxGeezy]

You put pressure on Quinn...and not only is he "not really,really good" he is "absolutely terrible".
Of course Sporting News had him on the cover of their magazine a few weeks ago walking on water. Literally.....with touchdown Jesus in the background. I went out to my mailbox, saw that....and immediately cancelled my subscription. Well maybe not immediately...but I no longer get that magazine.

[Texasfrog]

Ya... of coarse as we are saying this he is leading Notre dame back into the game against Michigan St. Michigan St's qb gave Notre Dammme a gift by fumbling the football on his own 30 yard line.

[Firebird]

Was this thread created a bit too early?--Discuss

[jtk1519]

Was this thread created a bit too early?--Discuss

If you have to ask that question, then you never understood the meaning behind the original question.

[BeauxGeezy]

Was this thread created a bit too early?--Discuss

The thread is about Weis/Mackovic...so I'd say no it's never too early to ask that question. He struggled with Michigan St....win or lose he's bound to hear some smack for it.

[Firebird]

OK-- Weis is no where close to Mackovic-- or at least it is too early to call. He had a tough game tonight against a talented Big 10 opponent with a long history of playing the Irish tough. Last week he lost against perhaps one of the country's most underrated teams, a Michigan squad that also has a lot of lore and a tough road back to elite status. That doesn't mean he is Mackovic.

Weis inherited a program with a lot of lore but not too much talent, at least compared with the elite programs of the nation. He was then successful beyond anyone's expectations his first year, creating a media malestrom around him and a program that every sportswriter in the USA wants depesparatly to retun to the top ranks. But it was to early for it, and now he is catching heat, ironically, because he was so successful at first. He would be in a better position right now if he had guided the Irish to say, a 7-5 season with wins over a few better teams in his first season.

Weis is a fine coach, who has the ability to take Notre Dame back to the top of the D-1a heap. But I didn'tthink he would do it this year. Check back in about 2. That's why I said "It's a bit too early" to start drawing comparisons with perhaps the most hated UT coach in history.

[lonny23]

Is that the bad coach, or the bald, obscure actor - John Malkovich (sp)?

Charlie will turn ND around - I think - but he should have stayed at NE. Maybe if he wore a sweater vest.
Charlie is way overrated. His team isn't great and bails him out.

[lonny23]

OK-- Weis is no where close to Mackovic-- or at least it is too early to call. He had a tough game tonight against a talented Big 10 opponent with a long history of playing the Irish tough. Last week he lost against perhaps one of the country's most underrated teams, a Michigan squad that also has a lot of lore and a tough road back to elite status. That doesn't mean he is Mackovic.

Weis inherited a program with a lot of lore but not too much talent, at least compared with the elite programs of the nation. He was then successful beyond anyone's expectations his first year, creating a media malestrom around him and a program that every sportswriter in the USA wants depesparatly to retun to the top ranks. But it was to early for it, and now he is catching heat, ironically, because he was so successful at first. He would be in a better position right now if he had guided the Irish to say, a 7-5 season with wins over a few better teams in his first season.

Weis is a fine coach, who has the ability to take Notre Dame back to the top of the D-1a heap. But I didn'tthink he would do it this year. Check back in about 2. That's why I said "It's a bit too early" to start drawing comparisons with perhaps the most hated UT coach in history.
Do what?

He took NOTRE DAME, who is never without talent to an 8-4 season. He beat 8 scrubs and got beat pretty good in the other games except the USC game.

[svhorns]

Lets not even talk about Notre Dame... Discuss...

[jtk1519]

The comparison that I made between Weis and Mackovic was one based on philosophy and ideology and the comparison that I made is simply undeniable. The fact remains that Weis in his season and a quarter at Notre Dame has shown himself to be a coach in the exact mold of John Mackovic... offense, offense, offense. Defense be damned. Mackovic is notorious for not giving two rips about defense and it is quite obvious that Weis is the same. The commentators during the ND/MSU game made the point more than once. Weis is a great offensive mind, but it's obvious that he doesn't care about defense... just like Mackovic.

He was then successful beyond anyone's expectations his first year...

What a poor commentary that is. Weis was 9-3 during his first year and he was rewarded with a mammoth contract extension. Tyrone Willingham went 10-3 his first season and two years later he was in the unemployment line. In fact, going into the Michigan State game, Weis had the exact same record that Willingham had through is first 15 games in South Bend. What does that say for expectations at Notre Dame that they are so thrilled to be at the exact same point they were just four seasons ago?

I guess what I’m wondering is how long can Weis be successful at Notre Dame simply trying to out-score everybody. We can debate just how successful he’s been period seeing as how his team failed to beat anybody that finished in the top 25 last year and they were absolutely ripped in their bowl game. Now, we are seeing it all over again. Michigan state poured through that Notre Dame defense like water through an open door… much like Michigan did. How are the Irish going to do this year against Purdue, UCLA and USC… all currently top 25 offenses?

I think Mackovic proved that offense is great and scoring points is great, but it doesn’t a whole bunch if you can’t keep the other team from scoring.

[lonny23]

The comparison that I made between Weis and Mackovic was one based on philosophy and ideology and the comparison that I made is simply undeniable. The fact remains that Weis in his season and a quarter at Notre Dame has shown himself to be a coach in the exact mold of John Mackovic... offense, offense, offense. Defense be damned. Mackovic is notorious for not giving two rips about defense and it is quite obvious that Weis is the same. The commentators during the ND/MSU game made the point more than once. Weis is a great offensive mind, but it's obvious that he doesn't care about defense... just like Mackovic.



What a poor commentary that is. Weis was 9-3 during his first year and he was rewarded with a mammoth contract extension. Tyrone Willingham went 10-3 his first season and two years later he was in the unemployment line. In fact, going into the Michigan State game, Weis had the exact same record that Willingham had through is first 15 games in South Bend. What does that say for expectations at Notre Dame that they are so thrilled to be at the exact same point they were just four seasons ago?

I guess what I’m wondering is how long can Weis be successful at Notre Dame simply trying to out-score everybody. We can debate just how successful he’s been period seeing as how his team failed to beat anybody that finished in the top 25 last year and they were absolutely ripped in their bowl game. Now, we are seeing it all over again. Michigan state poured through that Notre Dame defense like water through an open door… much like Michigan did. How are the Irish going to do this year against Purdue, UCLA and USC… all currently top 25 offenses?

I think Mackovic proved that offense is great and scoring points is great, but it doesn’t a whole bunch if you can’t keep the other team from scoring.
Air Force put up 408 on Tennessee and 367 on Wyoming. I want to see the Irish defense at 7000 feet!:p

[jtk1519]

Air Force put up 408 on Tennessee and 367 on Wyoming. I want to see the Irish defense at 7000 feet!:p

If you find a Notre Dame defense anywhere near green grass, let me know because I have yet to find them.

[lonny23]

If you find a Notre Dame defense anywhere near green grass, let me know because I have yet to find them.
I just checked. That Irish rush defense is a ready-made disaster for Air Force. The Falcons will just play keep-a-way if Notre Dame doesn't step it up.

[svhorns]

Notre Dame is the Casey Martin of College football...

[lonny23]

Notre Dame is the Casey Martin of College football...
Are you sure they aren't the Ricky Martin of football?

ALL HYPE AND NO SUBSTANCE!:mad:

[PeterGibbons]

Do what?

He took NOTRE DAME, who is never without talent to an 8-4 season. He beat 8 scrubs and got beat pretty good in the other games except the USC game.


As much as I LOVE to see the golden domers lose, Weiss is going to turn around the program. ND IS without talent on both the O and D-lines. Willingham F'ed the program hard by not recruiting worth a damn!! Once CW has his team in place the domers will be a force to be reckoned with.

[Firebird]

The comparison that I made between Weis and Mackovic was one based on philosophy and ideology and the comparison that I made is simply undeniable. The fact remains that Weis in his season and a quarter at Notre Dame has shown himself to be a coach in the exact mold of John Mackovic... offense, offense, offense. Defense be damned. Mackovic is notorious for not giving two rips about defense and it is quite obvious that Weis is the same. The commentators during the ND/MSU game made the point more than once. Weis is a great offensive mind, but it's obvious that he doesn't care about defense... just like Mackovic.



What a poor commentary that is. Weis was 9-3 during his first year and he was rewarded with a mammoth contract extension. Tyrone Willingham went 10-3 his first season and two years later he was in the unemployment line. In fact, going into the Michigan State game, Weis had the exact same record that Willingham had through is first 15 games in South Bend. What does that say for expectations at Notre Dame that they are so thrilled to be at the exact same point they were just four seasons ago?

I guess what I’m wondering is how long can Weis be successful at Notre Dame simply trying to out-score everybody. We can debate just how successful he’s been period seeing as how his team failed to beat anybody that finished in the top 25 last year and they were absolutely ripped in their bowl game. Now, we are seeing it all over again. Michigan state poured through that Notre Dame defense like water through an open door… much like Michigan did. How are the Irish going to do this year against Purdue, UCLA and USC… all currently top 25 offenses?

I think Mackovic proved that offense is great and scoring points is great, but it doesn’t a whole bunch if you can’t keep the other team from scoring.

If that is what you are going on, you could also ask Weis=Leach? In Leach's first couple of years at Tech, he gave almost no attention to the D and then then he hired Stentich to help-- now the D is respectable. Give Weis a little time, it is still a young program under him, and it is only natural that he will concentrate on what he knows. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go after some big defensive recruits this year, and to start shopping around for a new DC.

Plus, Willingham went 6-5 his last season, Weis came in and won 9 games and went to a BCS bowl. Yeah, I think the Irish had reason to get excited.

The comparasin with Willingham is a diffent thing-- I think that it was absurd to fire Willingham so soon, but that doesn't make Weis a "Mackovic".

I think it is funny that a Longhorn is so ready to proclaim another coach a flop after exatcly 1 9-3 season and a quarter of a second season. Good thing that standartd didn't apply to Brown.

[LoneRocket]

I wonder what excuse ND will give if Weis has a record similar or worse than Ty Willingham (after they fired him) for NOT firing him.

[jtk1519]

The comparasin with Willingham is a diffent thing-- I think that it was absurd to fire Willingham so soon, but that doesn't make Weis a "Mackovic".

I think it is funny that a Longhorn is so ready to proclaim another coach a flop after exatcly 1 9-3 season and a quarter of a second season. Good thing that standartd didn't apply to Brown.

Where did I call Weis a flop? How are you reading this stuff man? I said he is like Mackovic in the sense that he is an offensive minded HC that cares nothing about defense... a point that you agreed to. I could have easily compared Weis to any number of coaches who exhibit the same characteristics. I just picked Mackovic because as I was watching the ND/MSU game, I started remembering those Texas teams I watched as a kid in the 90s.

I never called Weis a flop and I would never do such a thing so early in his career. I'm way too smart for that. I simply asked how long can Weis succeed on this current path. I was wondering how long it would take him to address the defensive side of the ball or if he thinks he can just out-score everybody. Now you've got me calling the guy a "flop".:rolleyes:

[lonny23]

As much as I LOVE to see the golden domers lose, Weiss is going to turn around the program. ND IS without talent on both the O and D-lines. Willingham F'ed the program hard by not recruiting worth a damn!! Once CW has his team in place the domers will be a force to be reckoned with.
I'm not sold on him.

[Firebird]

Where did I call Weis a flop? How are you reading this stuff man? I said he is like Mackovic in the sense that he is an offensive minded HC that cares nothing about defense... a point that you agreed to. I could have easily compared Weis to any number of coaches who exhibit the same characteristics. I just picked Mackovic because as I was watching the ND/MSU game, I started remembering those Texas teams I watched as a kid in the 90s.

I never called Weis a flop and I would never do such a thing so early in his career. I'm way too smart for that. I simply asked how long can Weis succeed on this current path. I was wondering how long it would take him to address the defensive side of the ball or if he thinks he can just out-score everybody. Now you've got me calling the guy a "flop".:rolleyes:

Considering that I have never heard a 'Horn fan say a kind word about the first Mack, I think I can be excused for assuming that the Weis-Mackovic comparo was meant to point out that Weis wouldn't/couldn't succeed at ND.

I don't think that Weis doesn't care about D, I think that he is an offensive coach and so that will be the first thing he gets in order out there, similar to Leach at Tech.

[jtk1519]

Considering that I have never heard a 'Horn fan say a kind word about the first Mack, I think I can be excused for assuming that the Weis-Mackovic comparo was meant to point out that Weis wouldn't/couldn't succeed at ND.

Your assumption would be understandable had I not already clarified my position, but I give up. One can clarify himself only so many times before realizing that a conversation with a rock would be a more worthwhile endeavor.

[Firebird]

A. This thread is entitled simply "Weis=Mackovic". Even you have to admit that that could have been taken any number of different ways. Perhaps Weis=Mackovic in that both are overrated and are being proclaimed saviors way too soon. Perhaps Weis= Mackovic in that neither will ever win a NC. Perhaps Weis= Mackovic in that both are offensive gurus who don't care about defense. Perhaps you are truly bizarre in that you belive there is a possibilty that Mackovic's genetic material morphed into Charlie Weis, and they are, in fact, the same person. Who is to know based on your original thread title?

B. When you did "clarify" your original post, you questioned how long Weis would have success. You appear to believe that he will have some of the same problems Mackovic did. You made it pretty clear that you had your doubts about his ability to win several (Purdue, USC, UCLA) games this season. In my mind, a Notre Dame coach that loses several games a year is a "flop". Apparently, they feel the same way in South Bend, since they fired Willingham for that exact reason. I guess in JTK land, that doesn't make you a flop. How is anyone supposed to know? But, I concede your point- you nowhere actually called the guy a "flop", although you did insinuate that you wouldn't be surprised if he did not continue to succeed on his current path-- which would make him a future flop.

C. I did respond to your question once you clarified it. I believe that Weis is undermanned on the defensive side of the ball, and that as an offensive coach he naturally concentrated on what he knows first (and did an excellent job, btw). I think that he is too smart of a coach to ignore the D for too long, and that I would not be surprised if he heavily recruits blue chip talent on the defensive side of the ball this spring, and perhaps finds a new DC. If he doesn neither of those things, then get back to me on this question.

[jtk1519]

Blah, blah, blah

Never mind.

[Firebird]

Original thread started by jtk:

An obtuse question that can later be "interpreted" to make myself look like some sort of guru.

[jtk1519]

Original thread started by jtk:

Firebird hears a loud wooshing sound over his head, sits with stupid look on his face and then spends the next 25 posts trying to pretend he knew what was going on to begin with.

[FootballJunkie]

OK-- Weis is no where close to Mackovic-- or at least it is too early to call. He had a tough game tonight against a talented Big 10 opponent with a long history of playing the Irish tough. Last week he lost against perhaps one of the country's most underrated teams, a Michigan squad that also has a lot of lore and a tough road back to elite status. That doesn't mean he is Mackovic.

Weis inherited a program with a lot of lore but not too much talent, at least compared with the elite programs of the nation. He was then successful beyond anyone's expectations his first year, creating a media malestrom around him and a program that every sportswriter in the USA wants depesparatly to retun to the top ranks. But it was to early for it, and now he is catching heat, ironically, because he was so successful at first. He would be in a better position right now if he had guided the Irish to say, a 7-5 season with wins over a few better teams in his first season.

Weis is a fine coach, who has the ability to take Notre Dame back to the top of the D-1a heap. But I didn'tthink he would do it this year. Check back in about 2. That's why I said "It's a bit too early" to start drawing comparisons with perhaps the most hated UT coach in history.


WEIS IS NOT THAT GREAT!!! What has he done that the guy before him didn't do. Have one of the worst defenses in the country last year?? Get blown out in a bowl game?? Come back this year with a so-called heisman candidate and be worse on offense than last year and only marginally better on defense. Where is the greatness??? He was no more succesful his first year than the guy before him and they look to be headed down the same path as the other guy did if not for MSU imploding we would be looking at a 2-2 ND team right now!!

[jtk1519]

I think Weis is an outstanding coach with a tremendous offensive mind (I think Brady Quinn is very overrated). My only problem with him, as I have tried to say all along, is his refusal/inability to address the other side of the ball. Notre Dame will never be a contender and never be the machine the media wants them to be until Weis addresses the defense and don't give me this "he's starting with what he knows first" nonsense. You can get away with that at Texas Tech were expectations are low, but not at Notre Dame and Weis knows that. He just doesn't care and it looks like he has decided that he is going to just out-score everybody.

Weis is a tremendous recruiter... something Willingham never really was. He did sign the #8 recruiting class in his first year. However, consider this... in Weis' first recruiting class at Notre Dame, he signed 12 four and five star recruits, but only 3 of them were defensive players. This year, he currently has 9 verbal commitments. Of those, 6 are four and 5 star recruits, but only 2 are defensive players. That's just not going to get it done. Weis doesn't have to handle the defense himself, but he has to bring in somebody to do it for him.

[BeauxGeezy]

An obtuse question that can later be "interpreted" to make myself look like some sort of guru.



Did he just call you obtuse jtk?
Don't go "Shawshank" on him...

[Primetime536]

Did he just call you obtuse jtk?
Don't go "Shawshank" on him...
hahaha

[jtk1519]

Did he just call you obtuse jtk?
Don't go "Shawshank" on him...

He obviously got a thesaurus for his birthday or something.

[KT2000]

Hey, play nice. Don't like locking threads.

Plus, ddaddy is the one with the thesaurus.